华工象棋论坛

标题: 浪子寻乡 [打印本页]

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-7 21:03
标题: 浪子寻乡

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-8 09:14
本局关键在第5回合,红有以下几种选择:一是车九进六;二是车九平六;三是车九平一;四是车九平二;五是炮八退八;六是炮八退七等.都有一定变化.

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-8 09:57
研究了一下，似乎只有炮八退七能和，但变化还很复杂。

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-7-8 9:57:35编辑过]

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-8 10:32
第5回合炮八退七是我的主着.

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-8 11:08

作者: 蛟川鱼 时间: 2008-7-8 12:46

好局！！照上楼的变化，可能还是红炮八退八结尾多变。

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-7-8 14:08:34编辑过]

作者: 蛟川鱼 时间: 2008-7-8 15:08

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-7-8 15:22:10编辑过]

作者: 蛟川鱼 时间: 2008-7-8 15:19

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-7-8 15:31:17编辑过]

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-8 15:34

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-7-8 15:40:20编辑过]

作者: 蛟川鱼 时间: 2008-7-8 15:37

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-8 15:58

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-8 16:37
我觉得第5回合红走炮八退八容易形成黑胜.比如

当然这只是其中一路变化) [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]076778686768386808586858536358541018544449395955393844343848693906003430000155456353454101413038484739494757495957475953[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999949999999071008999999534169994299509964993899599999992378[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs//dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26id%3D19692%26star%3D1%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer] [DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator] [/DhtmlXQ]

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-8 16:49
同意崔老师的看法，砲八退八黑必胜。

作者: 蛟川鱼 时间: 2008-7-8 17:01
11楼红有：[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]637358564748000848475646473708588161[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]8199999947999999991799999999634158996099509964990099999999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3FboardID%3D48%26ID%3D19692%26star%3D2%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-8 17:31

这样可和：

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]6373585547485545483800301737455581615558383930373949374749396082617147417141585373725352727152323949324241426442[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]8199999947999999991799999999634158996099509964990099999999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_1]585647480008484756464737085881616082[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_1]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26replyid%3D131307%26id%3D19692%26skin%3D0%26page%3D1%26star%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: yjr123 时间: 2008-7-8 18:15

QUOTE:

以下是引用★星海★在2008-7-8 15:34:00的发言：

崔老师的走法是正着，此外还有一些变化，只要不出错可成正和。

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]076778686768386808586858536358541017544449395956393869683837562606264434374768582606343063625855474855584849585517475557060742206261648247465756074730364645364647465646493946566151565141515051[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999949999999071008999999534169994299509964993899599999992378[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_23_1]06864260636258548646644262613039615154514151505147485141174741313934464523244849[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_23_1]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26id%3D19692%26star%3D1%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

第21回合红方走兵三平四呢？

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-8 21:13
黑方还有另外一种应法： [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]076778686768386808586858536358541017544449395956393869683837562606266858260642201710200206764441767050517071515071415852413123243135504037382425353040411017252630375242635342465352463637362636[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999949999999071008999999534169994299509964993899599999992378[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs//dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26replyid%3D131307%26id%3D19692%26skin%3D0%26page%3D1%26star%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer] [DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator] [/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-8 21:18
黑方这样虽然被动一点，但可以求和。

作者: yjr123 时间: 2008-7-8 21:26

QUOTE:

以下是引用棋人ctq在2008-7-8 21:13:00的发言：
黑方还有另外一种应法： [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]076778686768386808586858536358541017544449395956393869683837562606266858260642201710200206764441767050517071515071415852413123243135504037382425353040411017252630375242635342465352463637362636[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999949999999071008999999534169994299509964993899599999992378[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs//dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26replyid%3D131307%26id%3D19692%26skin%3D0%26page%3D1%26star%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer] [DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator] [/DhtmlXQ]

第10回合红方车七平六呢？

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-8 21:35
对，这是一个漏着。

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-8 21:40
好象16楼的着法也有问题，14回合红帅五进一呢？黑不能一将一杀！黑应变着。有什么好办法吗？

作者: yjr123 时间: 2008-7-8 21:45
16楼指出不利用棋规也红胜啊

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-8 22:13
我说的意思是本来按棋规必须由黑方变着，不变作负。而你说的是即使红方主动求变也可以获胜，但16楼你拟第18回合如果黑改走车6进2，帅五进一；车6退1，帅五退一；车4进8，兵三平四；车6退7，兵五平四；将6进1，红无法取胜。所以只能按棋规必须由黑方变着，不变作负。

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-8 23:09
还有这样一路变化。[/face] [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]07677868676838680858685853635855101755454939595639386968383756260626686537384525262565256362252838392827626127373949375717165756161556551517555749485758484958574948575848495857171123246151575111512425[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999949999999071008999999534169994299509964993899599999992378[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs//dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26replyid%3D131408%26id%3D19692%26skin%3D0%26page%3D1%26star%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer] [DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator] [/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 蛟川鱼 时间: 2008-7-8 23:41

上楼有误:

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]265665551757[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]2699999938999999991799999999634165994299509964992599999999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3FboardID%3D48%26ID%3D19692%26star%3D3%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 蛟川鱼 时间: 2008-7-8 23:48

红有胜机:

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]494855584849585549485558484958574948[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999949999999991799999999624155994299509964993099999999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26replyid%3D131408%26id%3D19692%26skin%3D0%26page%3D1%26star%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-9 00:35
24楼我考虑失误。第4回合黑根本不能走车6退3。会形成红胜。

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-9 00:46

自己糊涂了。其实17楼的方法正确，顺序出了问题，这一路变化黑在被动中求和。

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]0767786867683868085868585363585410175444493959563938696838375626062644343747685826063444473742201710200206764441767050517071515071415852413123243135504037382425353040411017252630375242635342465352463637362636[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999949999999071008999999534169994299509964993899599999992378[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs//dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26replyid%3D131408%26id%3D19692%26skin%3D0%26page%3D1%26star%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-9 00:57
24楼的问题关键是第5回合红直接走车九平六黑无解。所以前4个回合是必须的。

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-9 01:01
谢谢大家关注，28楼也还有一些变化。

作者: hzsjy 时间: 2008-7-9 06:28

这样走有无问题？

如无问题则黑象不在红兵一边，红可胜。

1C3k3/4P4/4b4/2p2P3/6b2/9/R8/R8/C2r3p1/4Kcr2 w - - 0 1

欢迎访问www.elephantbase.net

这是较顽强的走法：

1C3k3/4P4/4b4/2p2P3/6b2/9/R8/R8/C2r3p1/4Kcr2 w - - 0 1

欢迎访问www.elephantbase.net

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-7-9 6:58:36编辑过]

作者: 蛟川鱼 时间: 2008-7-9 07:40

这里的前几个回合是正确的：

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]0767786867683868085868585363585410175444493959563938[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999949999999071008999999534169994299509964993899599999992378[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26replyid%3D131441%26id%3D19692%26skin%3D0%26page%3D1%26star%3D3[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 蛟川鱼 时间: 2008-7-9 07:44

但接下来的黑车7退1就欠考虑了：

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]69683837562606014220415150400131[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999938999999991799999999634169994299509964994499569999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26id%3D19692%26star%3D4%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 蛟川鱼 时间: 2008-7-9 07:54

应直接炮6平3，红如车九进五就如下着法，另是一个局面，黑下风守和。

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]56260601422017102002013144413141[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999938999999991799999999634169994299509964994499569999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26id%3D19692%26star%3D4%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 蛟川鱼 时间: 2008-7-9 07:58

红如车九平七，则有如下变化：

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]06266968383744343747685826064220067634444737444176705051707151507141[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999938999999991799999999634169994299509964994499269999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26id%3D19692%26star%3D4%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 蛟川鱼 时间: 2008-7-9 08:02

另外第4回合黑车6退3不好：

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]58550636[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999949999999991099999999634169994299509964995899599999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26id%3D19692%26star%3D4%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-9 08:31

回31楼下图,第44步黑退车捉兵怎么样?

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-9 08:37
34楼的局面黑能够守和吗?这个方案我考虑过,却没有研究过.

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-9 08:46

31楼给了黑方谋和的机会：

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]412152323747324247375040212040413738424838394843171323241318433318383363202464422421414038484260[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]4199999937999999991799999999639952992099509964999999999999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26replyid%3D131380%26id%3D19692%26skin%3D0%26page%3D1%26star%3D4[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-7-9 8:46:26编辑过]

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-9 08:52
回33楼,红若车九进五,黑可这样应付: [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]443437476838[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_binit]0199999937999999991799999999634168994299509964994499269999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs//dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26id%3D19692%26star%3D4%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer] [DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator] [/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 蛟川鱼 时间: 2008-7-9 09:35

QUOTE:

以下是引用棋人ctq在2008-7-9 8:52:00的发言：
回33楼,红若车九进五,黑可这样应付: [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]443437476838[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_binit]0199999937999999991799999999634168994299509964994499269999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs//dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26id%3D19692%26star%3D4%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer] [DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator] [/DhtmlXQ]

看来只有34楼的变化才是红方的选择！！

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-9 10:12
34楼也不对，应该是28楼吧？

作者: 蛟川鱼 时间: 2008-7-9 10:18

成和：

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]3444473742200676444176705051707151507141585241215232374732424737504021204041373842483837484320214140[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999947999999991799999999634158994299509964993499999999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26replyid%3D131464%26id%3D19692%26skin%3D0%26page%3D1%26star%3D4[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-9 10:33

我过去,在创作过程中,有很多棋局由于种种原因没有定论,我将这些没有定论的棋局保存在草稿里,现在这里有怎么多高水平的朋友,正好请大家批评斧正.而这局也是其中之一.

通过上面的讨论,可以确定,第5回合红必须炮八退七才是正着.而黑方面对红炮八退七如何应付,大概有两种对策:第一种是将军献炮后4路车退底线;第二种是回底象用中车换兵.

对第一种将军献炮后4路车退底线,按yjr123棋友在16楼提出红兵三进一的变化可能形成红胜.

对第二种回底象用中车换兵,黑在被动中求和,也只是我自己的看法,很想听听大家的意见,谢谢.

作者: 蛟川鱼 时间: 2008-7-9 10:35

这样是红方占优的局面：

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]076778686768386808586858536358541017544449395956393856260626696838374434374768582606344447374220067644417670505170715150714158523738[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999949999999071008999999534169994299509964993899599999992378[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3FboardID%3D48%26ID%3D19692%26star%3D4%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-9 10:40

QUOTE:

以下是引用蛟川鱼在2008-7-9 10:35:00的发言：

这样是红方占优的局面：

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]076778686768386808586858536358541017544449395956393856260626696838374434374768582606344447374220067644417670505170715150714158523738[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999949999999071008999999534169994299509964993899599999992378[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3FboardID%3D48%26ID%3D19692%26star%3D4%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

我认为此局面还有一些变化，黑方必须小心应付。

作者: 蛟川鱼 时间: 2008-7-9 10:44

“对第一种将军献炮后4路车退底线”，此变不能算是正变。

我个人认为：红方有至少二种方法可取胜。

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-7-9 10:46:04编辑过]

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-9 10:45

接45楼,黑可以再车6进6,帅六退一;车6退6,帅六进一;车6进6,帅六退一;车6退6,帅六进一,.....不变作和.

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-9 10:50
星海棋友说得对,第二种方案还有很多变化.我一开始就这么认为.不然为什么我一直没有对此局做定论.

作者: 蛟川鱼 时间: 2008-7-9 10:54

QUOTE:

以下是引用棋人ctq在2008-7-9 10:45:00的发言：

接45楼,黑可以再车6进6,帅六退一;车6退6,帅六进一;车6进6,帅六退一;车6退6,帅六进一,.....不变作和.

红方可以如此：

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]5258383958521737[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]4199999938999999991799999999639952992099509964999999999999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26id%3D19692%26star%3D5%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

红优是肯定的，如何入局还须仔细推敲。

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-7-9 10:58:08编辑过]

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-9 10:58

这样仍不易和。

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]0767786867683868085868585363585410175444493959563938562606266968383744343747685826063444473742200676444176705051707151507141585237385258383958524121[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999949999999071008999999534169994299509964993899599999992378[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26replyid%3D131307%26id%3D19692%26skin%3D0%26page%3D1%26star%3D5[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-9 11:04

是的,红选择变,黑肯定是下风.若与此局面能不能作红胜的结论,有待研究.

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-9 15:22
52楼原是针对50楼结尾的局面说的.

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-9 15:38
江湖型棋局创作确实很不容易，有时候一局棋结论需要研究很多次，还不一定对。

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-10 09:16

红方可能走了软着：

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]07677868676838680858685853635854101754444939595639385626062669683837443437476858260634444737422006764441767050517071515071415852373823244145523217373242453550403727424838394842393842483839484263532425353040413031414027292526313326275343425233304041303852574333574733322737387847457871414071704041707141407178453532313727783835383938272838372829[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999949999999071008999999534169994299509964993899599999992378[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26replyid%3D131307%26id%3D19692%26skin%3D0%26page%3D1%26star%3D6[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-10 10:38
55楼红第17回合走车五平七,变化复杂些,也好象对红有利些.

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-10 11:03
接51楼,这样变化可以和. [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]5232394932424939504039384248383948432120404139384363[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_binit]2199999939999999991799999999639952992099509964999999999999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs//dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26id%3D19692%26star%3D6%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer] [DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator] [/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-10 11:13

接51楼,这样变化红虽然不能立刻取定局,但黑守和难度大.

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]5232394932424939504021204041203023243938424838394842393842483839484217372425303642493938494838394842635342493938494838394842363325265343425237474151435352424753[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]2199999939999999991799999999639952992099509964999999999999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs//dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26id%3D19692%26star%3D6%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-10 15:16
崔老师：我认为51楼末尾的局面对黑不利，但是黑方也有软着：17回合车6进6叫将较劣。此时改走卒3进1红不易胜。

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-10 16:55
能够结论为此局和棋吗?我没有足够的理由.还希望朋友们指点.

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-10 17:30

58楼第6回合改进一下,黑方还可以这样走:

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]523239493242493950402120404120302324393824253036252636264248383948431747436326464151475763625753[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]2199999939999999991799999999639952992099509964999999999999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26replyid%3D131307%26id%3D19692%26skin%3D0%26page%3D1%26star%3D6[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

查残局库可知，末尾局面为和局。http://lpforth.forthfreak.net/cgi-bin/endgame.cgi?95K36R25c36E294r4993k50

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-7-10 17:50:09编辑过]

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-10 18:09

55楼改进一下可成红胜：

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]076778686768386808586858536358541017544449395956393856260626696838374434374768582606344447374220067644417670505170715150714158523738232441455232173732424535504063534248383948473938474838394847371724253530404130314140535247451715[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999949999999071008999999534169994299509964993899599999992378[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26replyid%3D131464%26id%3D19692%26skin%3D0%26page%3D1%26star%3D6[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 不老松 时间: 2008-7-10 19:00

QUOTE:

以下是引用棋人ctq在2008-7-10 10:38:00的发言：
55楼红第17回合走车五平七,变化复杂些,也好象对红有利些.

正着和!

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]076778686768386808586858536358541017544449395956393856260626445426165458383769393747393063625854474854584847585547485558484758534748[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999949999999071008999999534169994299509964993899599999992378[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3FboardID%3D48%26ID%3D19692%26star%3D6%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-7-10 19:01:08编辑过]

作者: hzsjy 时间: 2008-7-11 06:04
上楼末后是一将一杀。

作者: hzsjy 时间: 2008-7-11 06:09

QUOTE:

以下是引用★星海★在2008-7-10 18:09:00的发言：

55楼改进一下可成红胜：

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]076778686768386808586858536358541017544449395956393856260626696838374434374768582606344447374220067644417670505170715150714158523738232441455232173732424535504063534248383948473938474838394847371724253530404130314140535247451715[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999949999999071008999999534169994299509964993899599999992378[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26replyid%3D131464%26id%3D19692%26skin%3D0%26page%3D1%26star%3D6[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

34着黑可缓进卒，先进车将一军再车退原位，看红棋如何走。

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-11 08:21
标题: 回复：（hzsjy）以下是引用★星海★在2008-7-10 18:09...

看来你认为61楼和局是正着了？其实红方前面有软着。

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]52323949324249395040212040411737[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]2199999939999999991799999999639952992099509964999999999999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_1]20302324393824253036252636264248383948431747436326464151475763625753[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_1]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26id%3D19692%26star%3D7%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

黑方必失3路卒呈败势。

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-7-11 8:47:11编辑过]

作者: hzsjy 时间: 2008-7-11 08:44
我引用的是62楼的着法,在34着处黑车将再回原处．

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-11 08:49

QUOTE:

以下是引用hzsjy在2008-7-11 8:44:00的发言：
我引用的是62楼的着法,在34着处黑车将再回原处．

红方接下来走车五平七即成66楼。

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-13 17:16

我希望能有一个定论。63楼的结尾是违反棋规的。

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-14 09:56

经过几天的讨论我认为这局棋红胜。

这种局面红方必胜：

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]1699999947999999991799999999634130994299509964995899999999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26replyid%3D131307%26id%3D19692%26skin%3D0%26page%3D1%26star%3D7[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

这种局面比较复杂，我认为也是红胜。红方接下来有帅六退一、车五平六两种走法，我认为退帅较好：

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]4199999937999999991799999999639952992099509964999999999999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]373823244145523217373242453550406353424838394847371747571710200235454050536357521013524213434232394950404353403063622425454402246252[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_1]24253530404130314140535247451715[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_2]525838395852412152323949324249395040212040411737[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_2][DhtmlXQ_comment2_13]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_13]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_13_3]47423747405047434272355550405352[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_13_3]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26id%3D19692%26star%3D7%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

着法未贴完善，先贴一下再进行补充。

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-7-14 10:55:38编辑过]

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-14 10:46
对于70楼的上图,应该没有什么异议,红走兵三进一形成红胜,这是yjr123棋友最先提出的.70楼下图还会不会有什么变化?

作者: 凌云子 时间: 2008-7-14 11:38

QUOTE:

以下是引用★星海★在2008-7-14 9:56:00的发言：

这种局面比较复杂，我认为也是红胜。红方接下来有帅六退一、车五平六两种走法，我认为退帅较好：

着法未贴完善，先贴一下再进行补充。

第16着象3进5呢？

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-7-14 16:17:19编辑过]

作者: 凌云子 时间: 2008-7-14 11:43
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]4199999937999999991799999999639952992099509964999999999999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]3738232441455232173732424555504063534222535224255251[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_4_14_1]24253530404130314140535247451715[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_14_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_2]525838395852412152323949324249395040212040411737[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_13]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_13]
[DhtmlXQ_move_4_13_3]47423747405047434272355550405352[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_13_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_7_4]453550406353424838394847371747571710200235454050536357521013524213434232394950404353403063622425454402246252[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_7_4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_10_5]424838394847393847483839484739384748383948473938[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_10_5]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26id%3D19692%26star%3D8%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-14 14:56
73楼红胜，并未走出和棋着法。

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-14 15:54
如72楼所示的局面,帅六退一不能作为一个主要变化来研究,因为,如果帅六退一黑可以车6进6,帅六退一;车6退6,帅六进一.车6进6;帅六退一,车6退6;......红必须另想办法.

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-14 16:05

崔老师：如果帅六退一黑车6进6可能形成这种局面：

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]4199999937999999991799999999639952992099509964999999999999992399[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]3738525838395852412152323949324249395040212040411737[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_4_14_1]24253530404130314140535247451715[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_14_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_2]232441455232173732424555504063534222535224255251[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_2]
[DhtmlXQ_move_4_13_3]47423747405047434272355550405352[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_13_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_2_7_4]453550406353424838394847371747571710200235454050536357521013524213434232394950404353403063622425454402246252[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_7_4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_2_10_5]424838394847393847483839484739384748383948473938[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_10_5]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3Fboardid%3D48%26replyid%3D131307%26id%3D19692%26skin%3D0%26page%3D1%26star%3D8[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-7-14 16:25
是的,前面已经讨论过.

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-14 16:30

接下来黑方是保卒还是继续在防守布置线？我认为这样红胜。

作者: 贵在参竽 时间: 2008-7-16 08:22
黑第8着车6退1呢，应该是黑好走吧

作者: ★星海★ 时间: 2008-7-16 08:33

由于您没说清几楼第8着，我只能凭空猜测，可能是这样：

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]0699999949999999071008999999534169994299509964993899599999992378[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_type]排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]076778686768386808586858536358570636[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_1]58541017544449395956393869683837562606264434374768582606343006864260636258548646644262613039615154514151505147485141174741313934464523244849[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_1]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp%3FboardID%3D48%26ID%3D19692%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

接下来黑方如何应?

作者: 贵在参竽 时间: 2008-7-16 09:04

呵，如车6退1，车九平六红胜

作者: 棋人ctq 时间: 2008-8-23 08:59
最后结论为红胜局。

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