蕉竹齋之小聯吟

聨吟客 · 发表于 2023-10-13 05:54:50

此局白宏寬老師的詮注本認為黑勝是古譜就這樣走呢還是被詮為黑勝?

下面看看這樣走是否能和

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]4199079959996599638273999999995499999999309942999999831978384748[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_1]78793839[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_1]
[DhtmlXQ_title] 蕉竹齋之小聯吟 [/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红先和[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]636042608262604273704849594983434959434162603031606141406547384870713130476540505444506071766065763665453638483859584549616378685857384863436858434858484434[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment39]和局[/DhtmlXQ_comment39][DhtmlXQ_comment27]||這樣是否能和[/DhtmlXQ_comment27]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D57482%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

聨吟客 · 发表于 2023-10-14 23:11:08

xqahz010 发表于 2023-10-14 22:58
这样对否？

9樓的變著有這個走法

聨吟客 · 发表于 2023-10-13 11:04:22

補充變化一些變化也很精采呵呵這個被冷落一百多年的局勢難道竟是一局精品?
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]4199079959996599638273999999995499999999309942999999831978384748[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_move_20_30_21]6050212850582825[/DhtmlXQ_move_20_30_21]
[DhtmlXQ_move_17_30_19]7868336368786343[/DhtmlXQ_move_17_30_19]
[DhtmlXQ_move_14_30_16]85886545422036464030454888485958481858483040[/DhtmlXQ_move_14_30_16]
[DhtmlXQ_move_14_28_15]8535363848385958[/DhtmlXQ_move_14_28_15]
[DhtmlXQ_move_12_33_13]616585886535324235454232343332314348884859584846[/DhtmlXQ_move_12_33_13]
[DhtmlXQ_move_2_20_11]4050544442646587648287655060717360657343654544344535614132423444424143484131595835384846[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_20_11]
[DhtmlXQ_move_6_26_7]1018287818787173787673437616544448385958[/DhtmlXQ_move_6_26_7]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_18_2]313247654060717332317371313271736065614165457343458554448545443445854383426483818588343332424148884859584846[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_18_2]
[DhtmlXQ_title] 蕉竹齋之小聯吟 [/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红先和[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]636042608262604273704849594983434959434162603031606141406547384870713130476540505444506071766065763665453638483859584549616378685857384863436858434858484434[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment39]和局[/DhtmlXQ_comment39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27]||這樣是否能和[/DhtmlXQ_comment27]
[DhtmlXQ_move_8_24_6]4010212878792829192907291017717317677343676854446878434879695958784858486979[/DhtmlXQ_move_8_24_6]
[DhtmlXQ_move_8_23_3]87654010[/DhtmlXQ_move_8_23_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_8_34_4]78685157324223434838[/DhtmlXQ_move_8_34_4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_2_20_8]4264658764826121405071515054212854582823585623285658282332425154786823434838[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_20_8][DhtmlXQ_comment9_36]亞規和　陸規黑勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_36][DhtmlXQ_comment10_35]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_35][DhtmlXQ_comment2_44]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_44][DhtmlXQ_move_2_28_10]42247343324254444241434841315958[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_28_10]
[DhtmlXQ_move_2_21_9]5444422044343242616460657173655564445553737553557573555373755355[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_21_9][DhtmlXQ_comment12_43]和局[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_43][DhtmlXQ_comment11_41]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_41][DhtmlXQ_comment13_44]||和[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_44][DhtmlXQ_move_11_32_12]458561413242344442414348413159588588585788484434[/DhtmlXQ_move_11_32_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_31]可和[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_31][DhtmlXQ_comment16_40]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_40][DhtmlXQ_comment14_39]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_39]
[DhtmlXQ_move_17_28_18]48385958[/DhtmlXQ_move_17_28_18][DhtmlXQ_comment18_29]||可和[/DhtmlXQ_comment18_29][DhtmlXQ_comment17_34]||和[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_34][DhtmlXQ_comment19_33]||紅優[/DhtmlXQ_comment19_33][DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_1]78793839[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_26_14]65854434304061658581654581414541404136384838595878685857[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_26_14]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_26_17]655536385558383358573338575838335857[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_26_17][DhtmlXQ_comment4_38]||是否能和[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_38][DhtmlXQ_move_8_35_5]5157484959587868[/DhtmlXQ_move_8_35_5][DhtmlXQ_comment8_38]是否能和[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_38]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_20_20]406061414264544464424434426465476442412178682128485859496869493969593938606838376828[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_20_20][DhtmlXQ_comment20_40]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment20_40][DhtmlXQ_comment21_33]紅優[/DhtmlXQ_comment21_33]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D57483%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

聨吟客 · 发表于 2023-10-13 12:31:06

變化太多不一定正確有待大家協助補充修正

[DhtmlXQ]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_24_27]6442476541116141426473436442654748385958[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_24_27]
[DhtmlXQ_move_24_27_26]70761808[/DhtmlXQ_move_24_27_26]
[DhtmlXQ_move_24_25_25]7050115154446858[/DhtmlXQ_move_24_25_25]
[DhtmlXQ_move_23_23_24]6547786861511118707968694769192969471819[/DhtmlXQ_move_23_23_24]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_22]41406547384870713130476540505444506071766065763665453638483859584549616378685857384863436858434858484434[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_22]
[DhtmlXQ_move_20_30_21]6050212850582825[/DhtmlXQ_move_20_30_21]
[DhtmlXQ_move_17_30_19]7868336368786343[/DhtmlXQ_move_17_30_19]
[DhtmlXQ_move_14_30_16]85886545422036464030454888485958481858483040[/DhtmlXQ_move_14_30_16]
[DhtmlXQ_move_14_28_15]8535363848385958[/DhtmlXQ_move_14_28_15]
[DhtmlXQ_move_12_33_13]616585886535324235454232343332314348884859584846[/DhtmlXQ_move_12_33_13]
[DhtmlXQ_move_2_20_11]4050544442646587648287655060717360657343654544344535614132423444424143484131595835384846[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_20_11]
[DhtmlXQ_move_6_26_7]1018287818787173787673437616544448385958[/DhtmlXQ_move_6_26_7]
[DhtmlXQ_move_22_18_2]313247654060717332317371313271736065614165457343458554448545443445854383426483818588343332424148884859584846[/DhtmlXQ_move_22_18_2]
[DhtmlXQ_title] 蕉竹齋之小聯吟 [/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红先和[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]636042608262604273704849594983434959434162603031606131306547384847654264654764825464826470734146732346862343864643234666234366614348786847296111484919290729[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22_39]和局[/DhtmlXQ_comment22_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22_27]||這樣是否能和[/DhtmlXQ_comment22_27]
[DhtmlXQ_move_8_24_6]4010212878792829192907291017717317677343676854446878434879695958784858486979[/DhtmlXQ_move_8_24_6]
[DhtmlXQ_move_8_23_3]87654010[/DhtmlXQ_move_8_23_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_8_34_4]78685157324223434838[/DhtmlXQ_move_8_34_4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_2_20_8]4264658764826121405071515054212854582823585623285658282332425154786823434838[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_20_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_36]亞規和　陸規黑勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_35]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_44]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_44]
[DhtmlXQ_move_2_28_10]42247343324254444241434841315958[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_28_10]
[DhtmlXQ_move_2_21_9]5444422044343242616460657173655564445553737553557573555373755355[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_21_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_43]和局[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_43]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_41]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_41]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_44]||和[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_44]
[DhtmlXQ_move_11_32_12]458561413242344442414348413159588588585788484434[/DhtmlXQ_move_11_32_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_31]可和[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_40]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_40]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_39]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_39]
[DhtmlXQ_move_17_28_18]48385958[/DhtmlXQ_move_17_28_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18_29]||可和[/DhtmlXQ_comment18_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_34]||和[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_34]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19_33]||紅優[/DhtmlXQ_comment19_33]
[DhtmlXQ_move_22_28_1]78793839[/DhtmlXQ_move_22_28_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_22_26_14]65854434304061658581654581414541404136384838595878685857[/DhtmlXQ_move_22_26_14]
[DhtmlXQ_move_22_26_17]655536385558383358573338575838335857[/DhtmlXQ_move_22_26_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_38]||是否能和[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_38]
[DhtmlXQ_move_8_35_5]5157484959587868[/DhtmlXQ_move_8_35_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_38]是否能和[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_38]
[DhtmlXQ_move_22_20_20]406061414264544464424434426465476442412178682128485859496869493969593938606838376828[/DhtmlXQ_move_22_20_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20_40]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment20_40]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21_33]紅優[/DhtmlXQ_comment21_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_34]||黑勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_34]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_21_23]47654111544411186141786841486858594919294838181938392939[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_21_23][DhtmlXQ_comment26_28]黑勝定[/DhtmlXQ_comment26_28][DhtmlXQ_comment24_32]黑勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment24_32][DhtmlXQ_comment23]||能不能和呢[/DhtmlXQ_comment23][DhtmlXQ_comment39]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment39]
[DhtmlXQ_move_32_32_29]786843486858594918084838584849594838614182644146081807251929250729390725[/DhtmlXQ_move_32_32_29][DhtmlXQ_comment29_49]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment29_49][DhtmlXQ_comment14]這樣也很複雜精彩[/DhtmlXQ_comment14][DhtmlXQ_move_29_40_30]080938390939614148385958[/DhtmlXQ_move_29_40_30][DhtmlXQ_comment31_38]||黑勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment31_38][DhtmlXQ_comment32_44]黑勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment32_44][DhtmlXQ_comment21]||可能是局眼?||呵呵呵[/DhtmlXQ_comment21][DhtmlXQ_comment28_29]要著[/DhtmlXQ_comment28_29]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D57483%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

老鸽子 · 发表于 2023-10-13 17:45:57

聨吟客发表于 2023-10-13 11:04
補充變化一些變化也很精采呵呵這個被冷落一百多年的局勢難道竟是一局精品?

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]6399659959990799418273999999995499994299309999999983991938474878[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_pver]130606[/DhtmlXQ_pver]
[DhtmlXQ_adddate]2020-07-25 18:19:32[/DhtmlXQ_adddate]
[DhtmlXQ_editdate]2020-07-25 18:19:32[/DhtmlXQ_editdate]
[DhtmlXQ_title]《蕉竹斋象棋谱》小联吟[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_length]49[/DhtmlXQ_length]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_event]蕉竹斋汇编[/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_result]和棋[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_author][/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_hits]185[/DhtmlXQ_hits]
[DhtmlXQ_sortid]16173890[/DhtmlXQ_sortid]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]老鸽子[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_oldowner]老鸽子[/DhtmlXQ_oldowner]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]636042608262604273704849594983434959434162603031606141406547384870713130476540505444505671765666654766164765161844341929[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_23_1]44345686[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_23_1][DhtmlXQ_comment1_24]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_24][DhtmlXQ_comment30]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment30]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.dpxq.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.dpxq.com/hldcg/search/index.asp[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator][/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

yjr123 · 发表于 2023-10-13 17:56:03

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]4199079959996599638273999999995499999999309942999999831978384748[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_26_2]65453638483859584549616378685857384863436858434858484434[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_26_2]
[DhtmlXQ_move_2_28_1]78793839[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_28_1]
[DhtmlXQ_title] 蕉竹齋之小聯吟 [/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红先和[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]63604260826260427370484959498343495943416260303160614140654738487071313047654050544450607176606576366515[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_39]和局[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_27]||這樣是否能和[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_27]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D57483[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

老鸽子 · 发表于 2023-10-13 17:57:55

《蕉竹斋》只有多种抄本流传，未见正式刊印，也就不存在原谱着法。现在的着法是经清代江湖艺人和现代排局家整理、诠正的。该谱现存最早版本是1975年福州魏子丹发现的薛兴顺藏本，落款为宣统庚戌年(1910)菊月抄.

豫东棋人 · 发表于 2023-10-13 20:51:35

在七子连营基础上加红九三位相和2十位黑卒无意义

聨吟客 · 发表于 2023-10-13 23:22:52

感謝三位這樣可否有無意義或異議呵呵呵呵呵

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[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]4199079959996599638273999999255499999999309942999999830978384748[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title] 蕉竹齋之小聯吟改局聯吟客改 [/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红先和[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D57483%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

聨吟客 · 发表于 2023-10-13 23:43:47

是否就能實現這個和法呢

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]4199079959996599638273999999255499999999309942999999830978384748[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title] 蕉竹齋之小聯吟改局聯吟客改 [/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红先和[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]636042608262604273704849594983434959434162603031606141406547384870713130476540505444506071766065763665453638483859584549616378685857384863436858434858484434[/DhtmlXQ_movelist][DhtmlXQ_comment39]||和局[/DhtmlXQ_comment39]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_26_1]655536385558383358563338565838335856[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_26_1][DhtmlXQ_comment1_34]||不變和局[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_34]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D57483%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

聨吟客 · 发表于 2023-10-14 07:49:15

本帖最后由聨吟客于 2023-10-14 07:51 编辑

豫东棋人发表于 2023-10-13 20:51
在七子连营基础上加红九三位相和2十位黑卒无意义

是為了防止10回合炮三平八(或七ˋ或九)的簡單和法

我覺得構思不錯

可惜黑勝見老余走法

聨吟客 · 发表于 2023-10-14 08:00:56

本帖最后由聨吟客于 2023-10-14 08:07 编辑

弄錯呵呵呵呵呵

老鸽子 · 发表于 2023-10-14 15:22:12

本帖最后由老鸽子于 2023-11-27 08:16 编辑

最初看到这个着法，确实觉得是个重大发现。但以我这样的程度，用纯人脑拆解，都觉得有问题（我的上述拆解是否成立？），所以这个发现不成立。

此外，为让此发现成立，加兵并不可取。因为这已不是原局，而是一则改局。换句话说，它是一则改局，而不是什么发现。而且，这个和法在古今棋谱中常见，这里的发现仅指相对于一个特定的棋局而言。

豫东棋人 · 发表于 2023-10-14 22:01:54

这局我用鲨鱼软件走的是红先黑胜

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聨吟客 · 发表于 2023-10-14 22:18:03

謝謝各位我再研究研究

xqahz010 · 发表于 2023-10-14 22:58:29

这样对否？
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yjr123 · 发表于 2023-10-16 08:23:34

这种改局已经无所谓对错，和法太多了。

本来就是差一点就可以和了，加了一个兵挡路，还要把底卒移到角落，确保黑方不可能胜了，红方也没有什么机会。

聨吟客 · 发表于 2023-10-16 11:25:07

呵呵呵呵呵能夠實現9樓(變著早有15樓走法)和法
我已覺得成功滿意了

黑方有很多變化因為紅有七路兵所以最後可能紅優這是有點可惜的
限於精力就不再一一列出

謝謝各位熱情討論

yjr123 · 发表于 2023-10-16 15:35:22

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