华工象棋论坛

标题: 定式残局 [打印本页]
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-16 21:52
标题: 定式残局
原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-16 21:53
原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 柒匹狼    时间: 2014-9-16 21:55
你发这种数据参数繁多的残局 恐怕特大来都不敢肯定 这里更不一定敢有人给答案了
作者: 柒匹狼    时间: 2014-9-16 21:56
如果实战 60回合限制 这关恐怕还是过不去吧
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-16 21:59
如果实战 60回合限制 这关恐怕还是过不去吧[/quote] 如果说实战，可以无视这些局面，谢谢。
作者: 象棋法官    时间: 2014-9-16 22:04
谢谢分享。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-16 22:07
原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 柒匹狼    时间: 2014-9-16 22:11
[/quote] 对于 连线后可以直接整理出动态棋谱这点确实不错 一般的软件还真没这功能
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-16 22:11
原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-16 22:14
原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-16 22:29
原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: zhaodi    时间: 2014-9-17 13:10
菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-9-16 22:29


11楼的棋图，红方第八回合可以逼黑犯规。一将一捉，当然，按亚规和棋。
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[DhtmlXQ_title]问道可对？[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment1_61]黑方被将死,红方胜！||||红方分数：19999||黑方用时：     4.802秒||红方用时：     5.182秒||双方实际花费时间：     9.984秒||||棋谱由象棋桥生成。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_61]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-17 13:13
zhaodi 发表于 2014-9-17 13:10
11楼的棋图，红方第八回合可以逼黑犯规。一将一捉，当然，按亚规和棋。


亚规不犯规，红方可以变招，胜
作者: 魔帝大人    时间: 2014-9-17 15:43
没有一局是定式， 被忽悠了。所谓定式，结果基本是公认为明确的。比如车炮占中胜单车，马擒单士。
作者: 象棋法官    时间: 2014-9-17 15:51
7楼也是名局了，白日东残局库的代表作。
11楼红胜无悬念，也算定式了。其余几局还是第一次见到。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-17 16:28
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:01 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-17 16:29
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:01 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-17 16:29
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:01 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-17 16:30
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:02 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-18 18:40
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:02 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-18 18:45
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:02 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-18 19:10
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:02 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-18 19:17
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:03 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 聨吟客    时间: 2014-9-18 20:09
菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-9-18 18:45

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[DhtmlXQ_comment1_437]黑方被将死,红方胜！||||红方分数：19999||黑方用时：    37.737秒||红方用时：    38.704秒||双方实际花费时间：    76.441秒||||棋谱由象棋桥生成。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_437]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
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[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D32866%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]
作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-9-18 20:17
聨吟客 发表于 2014-9-18 20:09

     炮八进四速  胜
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-18 20:18
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:03 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 聨吟客    时间: 2014-9-18 20:18
仍可勝
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[DhtmlXQ_comment1_437]黑方被将死,红方胜！||||红方分数：19999||黑方用时：    37.737秒||红方用时：    38.704秒||双方实际花费时间：    76.441秒||||棋谱由象棋桥生成。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_437]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment144]紅如何勝＿[/DhtmlXQ_comment144]
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作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-9-18 20:41
这里面有不少棋局单从深度来说，就远远超过的现在的排局。周软“象棋珍珑”已经大大促进了连照胜局的发展，以后随着科技的进步，其他形式的排局也会有大幅度的提高。
作者: 聨吟客    时间: 2014-9-18 20:59
非人力能解之局　,也有很多60回合不吃子不兌子之局,數百回合方能破解,像武俠小說武功秘笈那樣會令人走火入魔
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-18 21:05
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:03 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-18 21:10
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:03 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: yuntao云涛    时间: 2014-9-19 19:28
聨吟客 发表于 2014-9-18 20:59
非人力能解之局　,也有很多60回合不吃子不兌子之局,數百回合方能破解,像武俠小說武功秘笈那樣會令人走火入魔 ...

想当初我向大家介绍【张夫人】时，大家都认为是我在神话【张】，现在大家都见识到【张】的真实了，武功秘笈一说也绝非夸张
作者: yjr123    时间: 2014-9-20 07:30
yuntao云涛 发表于 2014-9-19 19:28
想当初我向大家介绍【张夫人】时，大家都认为是我在神话【张】，现在大家都见识到【张】的真实了，武功秘 ...

强软和残局库的区别在于：一个是根据局面当场计算并有很好表现，一个是事先利用穷举法创建并保存，使用时主要是查询，看到云涛贴的几局局面，已经基本上知道是怎么回事了，见以下链接：

http://www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum ... mp;page=1#pid235226
作者: zhaodi    时间: 2014-9-20 16:43
可以使用、借鉴象棋软件，但不要迷信象棋软件，就算有了残局库，如何按排局的要求（红宜速胜，黑宜迟负）列出着法，是很难的，若是和棋，就更不好整理着法了。这是我总结PAI残局库的感受。
还有就是软件按照亚洲规则，排局按约定俗成的大陆规则，这样就无法统一结论，游戏规则不同，简直就没法一起玩。
软件还有几个弱点，一是它认为吃普通子和吃将帅的分数是一样的，这样就可能造成软件自动解的棋有速胜的可能；二是它会借无意义的将军来拖延步数，这在排局中属于无赖着法。三是残局库虽好，但它不会给你具体局面，还是需要人去排列组合出来一个局面，而这种局面不是漫无目的的组合，需要人的智慧和灵感。

作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-21 00:56
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-9-21 01:09 编辑
zhaodi 发表于 2014-9-20 16:43
可以使用、借鉴象棋软件，但不要迷信象棋软件，就算有了残局库，如何按排局的要求（红宜速胜，黑宜迟负）列 ...


       说到规则，无意思的将军既然属于无赖着发，那么超过60回合的限制的残局或者排局可以不去研究了，还有就是制定亚洲规则的人也可以洗洗睡了。虽然我不懂象棋，但是好像没有裁判说无意义的将军属于无赖。无赖又属于违规的哪一个呢？
       对了，随便一个残局就有几十亿或者几百亿上千亿的的着发，如果书面表达，是不是太过于海量了，一个简单的炮高兵单士相对士象全残局有866E个局面，换算成数字文件为180MB，这是很小的局面了，现在更有一个残局超过45GB的存储空间，真不知道该如何表达。
       看来象棋还真不适合用软件来玩。
      
作者: zhaodi    时间: 2014-9-21 01:01
没必要探讨这个说法的问题，还是研究棋局吧，自娱自乐的游戏，大家一起自娱自乐。
作者: 炎与夜    时间: 2014-9-21 01:48
菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-9-21 00:56
说到规则，无意思的将军既然属于无赖着发，那么超过60回合的限制的残局或者排局可以不去研究了， ...

既然有对局面极限计算的能力，那么一直纠结的几个问题就可以得到解答了：
请阁下计算一下“七星”与“征西”这2个排局哪个变化更多？
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-21 21:50
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:04 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: zhaodi    时间: 2014-9-22 12:46
人脑与电脑的区别。

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[DhtmlXQ_comment1_55]黑方被将死,红方胜！||||红方分数：19999||黑方用时：     2.731秒||红方用时：     2.589秒||双方实际花费时间：     5.320秒||||棋谱由象棋桥生成。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_55]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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作者: 象棋法官    时间: 2014-9-22 12:57
zhaodi 发表于 2014-9-22 12:46
人脑与电脑的区别。

电脑走到这里能将很多回合，人不会。
作者: zhaodi    时间: 2014-9-22 13:03
菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-9-17 16:28

回复16楼。红好像能速胜。
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[DhtmlXQ_comment1_164]score:19998 time:78[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_164]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_165]黑方困毙,红方胜！||||红方分数：19999||黑方用时：    10.404秒||红方用时：    10.345秒||双方实际花费时间：    20.749秒||||棋谱由象棋桥生成。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_165]
[DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
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[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D32866%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]
作者: yjr123    时间: 2014-9-22 13:20
呵呵，软件走错次序，第18回合应该先马7退6再象7进5.
作者: 象棋法官    时间: 2014-9-22 13:23
yjr123 发表于 2014-9-22 13:20
呵呵，软件走错次序，第18回合应该先马7退6再象7进5.

没有错，电脑考虑马会被拴死。
作者: 飞天神弈    时间: 2014-9-22 23:04
双方都是电脑运行的`吧
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-26 22:27
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-9-26 22:28 编辑


软件随机自动排了个局面，有兴趣的请来解。
FEN：4k1c2/1P7/PPN1n4/1P4CNC/9/4r4/9/1p7/4pp3/3K1RB1R w - - 0 1
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-9-27 09:19
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:04 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: yjr123    时间: 2014-9-27 10:05
菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-9-27 09:19

此局暴露出残局库的一个问题，把将帅和其他子等同看待，第51回合黑方软件选择被杀也不愿丢士。
作者: 柒匹狼    时间: 2014-9-28 23:32
这局面好像还说明个问题 双马对单缺象或单缺士 不是例胜局面
作者: 柒匹狼    时间: 2014-9-28 23:33
居然少打了个马字
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-10-5 12:55
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:04 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-10-5 12:59
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:04 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: zhaodi    时间: 2014-10-5 20:50
菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-10-5 12:55

回复50楼，红有速胜。

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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9903879957999999992899999999999999779941329999799999999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]残局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment1_120]score:19998 time:78[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_120]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_121]黑方困毙,红方胜！||||红方分数：19999||黑方用时：     7.816秒||红方用时：    10.951秒||双方实际花费时间：    18.767秒||||棋谱由象棋桥生成。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_121]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_39_1]06365141485807283638281638484131585916374878375646585668586668767838314166787668383968563949413159585637494732415848372948492937493941323938372547492546384846677857324148584152573852415857415238466759575879876987597846257886493952412544866744364132365531415567414267483241394942324941324241404241482741402735404135434142436242326250[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_39_1][DhtmlXQ_comment39]红这样速胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment39][DhtmlXQ_comment63]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment63]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D32866%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
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作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-10-6 22:31
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:05 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-10-6 22:46
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:05 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-10-6 22:53
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:05 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: zhaodi    时间: 2014-10-7 09:48
菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-10-6 22:46

回复54楼，有疑问。

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[DhtmlXQ_date]2014-10-06[/DhtmlXQ_date]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment1_758]score:19990 time:125[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_758]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_759]score:19991 time:328[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_759]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_760]score:19992 time:374[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_760]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_761]score:19993 time:328[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_761]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_762]score:19994 time:187[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_762]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_763]score:19995 time:452[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_763]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_764]score:19996 time:281[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_764]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_765]score:19997 time:406[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_765]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_766]score:19998 time:125[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_766]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_767]黑方被将死,红方胜！||||红方分数：19999||黑方用时：   145.003秒||红方用时：   125.035秒||双方实际花费时间：   270.038秒[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_767]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D32866%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-10-15 10:19
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:06 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-10-15 10:23
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:06 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: zhaodi    时间: 2014-10-15 10:48
不用仔细研究，绝对有速胜。因为棋规问题，红方会主动规避让黑方犯规的速胜着法，意思就是：我不用棋规也能赢！但对弈和排局创作中，红胜局是按照“胜宜速胜，负宜迟负”的要求，会最大可能的利用棋规。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-10-15 11:16
zhaodi 发表于 2014-10-15 10:48
不用仔细研究，绝对有速胜。因为棋规问题，红方会主动规避让黑方犯规的速胜着法，意思就是：我不用棋规也能 ...


这个还请你重新拟局，发上来研究一下为好，无图无真相，难以说服别人。
作者: zhaodi    时间: 2014-10-15 11:38
如52楼、56楼我所发帖，都是速胜或者有棋规疑问的，应该可以说明了。
作者: yjr123    时间: 2014-10-15 11:44
zhaodi 发表于 2014-10-15 10:48
不用仔细研究，绝对有速胜。因为棋规问题，红方会主动规避让黑方犯规的速胜着法，意思就是：我不用棋规也能 ...

菜鸟的残局库并不按照这些原则，如58楼倒数第2回合，黑方按照此原则应该飞中象，但却走卒，被红一步杀。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-10-15 11:49
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:06 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 柒匹狼    时间: 2014-10-15 14:30
菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-10-15 11:49
明白你的意思了，就是说必须杀光头才算输。 还有56楼，你走了一步马八退七，居然步数增加了2回合。

这残局库好，可以直接连着棋软运行。
作者: zhaodi    时间: 2014-10-15 15:19
菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-10-15 11:49
明白你的意思了，就是说必须杀光头才算输。 还有56楼，你走了一步马八退七，居然步数增加了2回合。


回复63楼，对56楼的棋局疑问探讨。

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]4907993747579999999999999999999963990241319964999999999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]残局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_date]2014-10-06[/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place]华山[/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_red]A8(日帅)[/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black]老烟枪无敌(9星)[/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]5748634347574313072613535747532326142343475743535747531314261323261423434757435357475313142613434757435357475323[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment15]红走此步黑会如何？[/DhtmlXQ_comment15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment28]多将一捉。黑负。||||如按图片中的分值，改走象7退5，则就成为558着吃子了，即红比走马八退六的726着快了168着吃子。[/DhtmlXQ_comment28]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D32866%26page%3D3%26extra%3D%23pid238495[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]
作者: yjr123    时间: 2014-10-15 16:07
菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-10-15 11:49
明白你的意思了，就是说必须杀光头才算输。 还有56楼，你走了一步马八退七，居然步数增加了2回合。

不是杀光头才算输，而是将被捉住就算输！
作者: 象棋法官    时间: 2014-10-15 16:42
本帖最后由 象棋法官 于 2014-10-15 16:43 编辑

这是两种社会制度与价值观的碰撞。
一个是平均主义，人人平等，这是类似“太平天国”的理想。
一个是阶级制度，统治者凌驾于平民百姓之上。
残局库用的是前者，
中国象棋的棋规沿用了后者。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-10-15 21:41
zhaodi 发表于 2014-10-15 15:19
回复63楼，对56楼的棋局疑问探讨。

63楼图解，车2平3
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-10-15 23:27
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:06 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-10-15 23:42
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:06 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: yjr123    时间: 2014-10-16 07:42
菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-10-15 21:41
63楼图解，车2平3


65楼已经列出着法，车2平3后红接走马七进八。
作者: yjr123    时间: 2014-10-16 08:07
菜鸟残局库红胜结论绝大部分是成立的，但所拟着法存在问题，有速胜和缓负着法，这里再举一个不牵涉棋规可以速胜的例子：

这是菜鸟发在30楼的棋局，第54回合残局库红方走兵四平五弃子，实际上直接进兵就可以速胜

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999659947999999999999056685999999994299529999999999991588999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]残局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]0504152585842535847435456587887874737868736345464737463637386858635352510414514153434131433331411424364638374636374736464757586866654656574756464737463637383646876968583837463637474151243436464737463637475152334336464737463637384260344452514454514165644131433336463837463637473646475758685444465657476858645456464757586854534656574768584737564633323141535246363747364647575868525141405150403050606878605046565747564647487888444388784342786842416858485846563231[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1]score:19905 time:14774 side:1[/DhtmlXQ_comment1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2]score:19906 time:561[/DhtmlXQ_comment2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3]score:19907 time:125[/DhtmlXQ_comment3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4]score:19908 time:172[/DhtmlXQ_comment4]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5]score:19909 time:124[/DhtmlXQ_comment5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6]score:19910 time:172[/DhtmlXQ_comment6]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7]score:19911 time:125[/DhtmlXQ_comment7]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8]score:19912 time:171[/DhtmlXQ_comment8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9]score:19913 time:156[/DhtmlXQ_comment9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10]score:19914 time:188[/DhtmlXQ_comment10]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11]score:19915 time:156[/DhtmlXQ_comment11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12]score:19916 time:218[/DhtmlXQ_comment12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13]score:19917 time:109[/DhtmlXQ_comment13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14]score:19918 time:219[/DhtmlXQ_comment14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15]score:19919 time:78[/DhtmlXQ_comment15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16]score:19920 time:171[/DhtmlXQ_comment16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17]score:19921 time:125[/DhtmlXQ_comment17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18]score:19922 time:78[/DhtmlXQ_comment18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19]score:19923 time:109[/DhtmlXQ_comment19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20]score:19924 time:187[/DhtmlXQ_comment20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21]score:19925 time:110[/DhtmlXQ_comment21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22]score:19926 time:171[/DhtmlXQ_comment22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23]score:19927 time:125[/DhtmlXQ_comment23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment24]score:19928 time:172[/DhtmlXQ_comment24]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25]score:19929 time:93[/DhtmlXQ_comment25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26]score:19930 time:125[/DhtmlXQ_comment26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27]score:19931 time:125[/DhtmlXQ_comment27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment28]score:19932 time:187[/DhtmlXQ_comment28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29]score:19933 time:78[/DhtmlXQ_comment29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment30]score:19934 time:109[/DhtmlXQ_comment30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment31]score:19935 time:78[/DhtmlXQ_comment31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment32]score:19936 time:125[/DhtmlXQ_comment32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment33]score:19937 time:125[/DhtmlXQ_comment33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment34]score:19938 time:187[/DhtmlXQ_comment34]
[DhtmlXQ_comment35]score:19939 time:109[/DhtmlXQ_comment35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment36]score:19940 time:187[/DhtmlXQ_comment36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment37]score:19941 time:94[/DhtmlXQ_comment37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment38]score:19942 time:125[/DhtmlXQ_comment38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment39]score:19943 time:78[/DhtmlXQ_comment39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment40]score:19944 time:187[/DhtmlXQ_comment40]
[DhtmlXQ_comment41]score:19945 time:125[/DhtmlXQ_comment41]
[DhtmlXQ_comment42]score:19946 time:156[/DhtmlXQ_comment42]
[DhtmlXQ_comment43]score:19947 time:125[/DhtmlXQ_comment43]
[DhtmlXQ_comment44]score:19948 time:140[/DhtmlXQ_comment44]
[DhtmlXQ_comment45]score:19949 time:78[/DhtmlXQ_comment45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment46]score:19950 time:109[/DhtmlXQ_comment46]
[DhtmlXQ_comment47]score:19951 time:141[/DhtmlXQ_comment47]
[DhtmlXQ_comment48]score:19952 time:109[/DhtmlXQ_comment48]
[DhtmlXQ_comment49]score:19953 time:93[/DhtmlXQ_comment49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment50]score:19954 time:156[/DhtmlXQ_comment50]
[DhtmlXQ_comment51]score:19951 time:78[/DhtmlXQ_comment51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment52]score:19952 time:63[/DhtmlXQ_comment52]
[DhtmlXQ_comment53]score:19953 time:93[/DhtmlXQ_comment53]
[DhtmlXQ_comment54]score:19954 time:125[/DhtmlXQ_comment54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment55]score:19955 time:78[/DhtmlXQ_comment55]
[DhtmlXQ_comment56]score:19956 time:141[/DhtmlXQ_comment56]
[DhtmlXQ_comment57]score:19957 time:62[/DhtmlXQ_comment57]
[DhtmlXQ_comment58]score:19958 time:125[/DhtmlXQ_comment58]
[DhtmlXQ_comment59]score:19959 time:109[/DhtmlXQ_comment59]
[DhtmlXQ_comment60]score:19960 time:125[/DhtmlXQ_comment60]
[DhtmlXQ_comment61]score:19961 time:93[/DhtmlXQ_comment61]
[DhtmlXQ_comment62]score:19962 time:125[/DhtmlXQ_comment62]
[DhtmlXQ_comment63]score:19963 time:109[/DhtmlXQ_comment63]
[DhtmlXQ_comment64]score:19964 time:110[/DhtmlXQ_comment64]
[DhtmlXQ_comment65]score:19965 time:109[/DhtmlXQ_comment65]
[DhtmlXQ_comment66]score:19966 time:125[/DhtmlXQ_comment66]
[DhtmlXQ_comment67]score:19967 time:93[/DhtmlXQ_comment67]
[DhtmlXQ_comment68]score:19968 time:156[/DhtmlXQ_comment68]
[DhtmlXQ_comment69]score:19969 time:78[/DhtmlXQ_comment69]
[DhtmlXQ_comment70]score:19970 time:109[/DhtmlXQ_comment70]
[DhtmlXQ_comment71]score:19971 time:78[/DhtmlXQ_comment71]
[DhtmlXQ_comment72]score:19972 time:110[/DhtmlXQ_comment72]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment1_123]黑方被将死,红方胜！||||红方分数：19999||黑方用时：     8.816秒||红方用时：     6.768秒||双方实际花费时间：    15.584秒||||棋谱由象棋桥生成。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_123]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-10-16 09:52
yjr123 发表于 2014-10-16 07:42
65楼已经列出着法，车2平3后红接走马七进八。

呵呵，马八退六你不走，非要走马八退七。
作者: yjr123    时间: 2014-10-16 12:50
菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-10-16 09:52
呵呵，马八退六你不走，非要走马八退七。


因为马八退七要比退六提早一百多步取胜

就如72楼我指出的，第54回合你偏要走兵四平五（8个回合取胜），而大部分人都会走兵五进一（4个回合取胜）。
作者: 柒匹狼    时间: 2014-10-16 13:06
yjr123 发表于 2014-10-16 12:50
因为马八退七要比退六提早一百多步取胜

就如72楼我指出的，第54回合你偏要走兵四平五（8个回合取胜） ...

残局库一般给的结论如果不按大陆棋规基本上是没有争议的，但是有时候在着法选择上是有出处的。就像PAI库那个车炮士对车双象一样 明明11回合平帅回中就可以得子。可残局库的推荐着法却不是，这个原因可能导致软件直接按着残局库的推荐指示走而造成的。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-10-16 18:21
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:07 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 柒匹狼    时间: 2014-10-16 19:42
菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-10-16 18:21
残局库是从小库到大库发展的，比如说红双车对黑单马，红在单车必胜的情况下，有可能会送一个车给黑马吃掉 ...

如果一天能跑出来你现在这么大的库，我就造一个。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-10-16 19:45
柒匹狼 发表于 2014-10-16 19:42
如果一天能跑出来你现在这么大的库，我就造一个。

现在的库相对于象棋来说，就如同一粒沙子跟宇宙的对比，太渺小了，所以，不能动不动就给象棋下定义，古人常说，无知者无畏。
作者: 柒匹狼    时间: 2014-10-16 19:48
菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-10-16 19:45
现在的库相对于象棋来说，就如同一粒沙子跟宇宙的对比，太渺小了，所以，不能动不动就给象棋下定义，古人 ...

不知道你知不知道EVE这个游戏，大的真的是好离谱的。跟残局库很像
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-10-16 20:04
知道，这个游戏需要大量的时间与精力。建造各种武器装备，太空游戏。
作者: 象棋法官    时间: 2014-10-16 20:20
菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-10-15 11:49
明白你的意思了，就是说必须杀光头才算输。 还有56楼，你走了一步马八退七，居然步数增加了2回合。

看明白了
63#

残局库为什么马八退七比马八退六步数多？
现行棋规是让黑方变着，残局库是让红方变着，走缓胜的着法。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-10-17 23:19
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:07 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: 菜鸟来玩    时间: 2014-10-17 23:23
本帖最后由 菜鸟来玩 于 2014-11-5 11:07 编辑

原帖删除，敬请谅解。
作者: ★星海★    时间: 2015-8-19 10:04
zhaodi 发表于 2014-10-15 10:48
不用仔细研究，绝对有速胜。因为棋规问题，红方会主动规避让黑方犯规的速胜着法，意思就是：我不用棋规也能 ...

赵老师发现有速胜，按国内的棋规确实如此。
残局库优先考虑无棋规纠纷的着法也是有道理的。
按照当前棋，60回合就应判和了。研究此胜法就是默认了不受当前棋规限制。
现行棋规是专业棋手的必修课，民间棋手就不必了。普通的对弈，没有专业裁判，也不可能完全遵守棋规。棋规来回修改也从未考虑民间的感受。
离开专业比赛，象棋一样会流传，脱离群众基础，象棋肯定会玩完。任你棋规如何变，我以不变应万变，是民间最好的对策。
残局库避开棋规纠纷，也是应对棋规频改的办法。
作者: zhaodi    时间: 2015-8-19 10:26
★星海★ 发表于 2015-8-19 10:04
赵老师发现有速胜，按国内的棋规确实如此。
残局库优先考虑无棋规纠纷的着法也是有道理的。
按照当前棋 ...


有个类比，谁主张谁举证。如棋局，红方说胜定，红方就应该主动走出红胜的着法，而不管黑方如何应招，都能红胜。黑方要尽可能迟负
这是残局库的理论依据，黑方就算走出规则禁止的着法，红方可以变也照样赢。但是否太过于谦让对方了。

这里面有个底线问题，黑方长将行吗？绝对不行。那长捉行吗？也不行。那一将一捉、多将一捉行不行？长要杀、长要吃行不行？这就是个底线问题，也就是说，基本的规则还是要有的，而这个基本的规则，民间也没有严格的规定。

作者: 聨吟客    时间: 2015-8-19 10:39
菜鳥為何要把圖都刪除了呢? 就算有規則的討論也沒關係呀, 那是常有的事

作者: 一杯红酒    时间: 2015-8-19 15:14
本帖最后由 一杯红酒 于 2015-8-20 13:15 编辑

维护个人完美形象要紧，某些举动敬请谅解；只要守住裤腰带（民规，原本无定论的来做依托说事），就还能堂而皇之嘛！



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