海底捞月

667 · 发表于 2017-8-13 13:07:24

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667 · 发表于 2017-8-13 13:08:14

http://www.chessdb.cn/query/

云库居然没收录这局。

yjr123 · 发表于 2017-8-13 16:37:09

667 发表于 2017-8-13 13:08
http://www.chessdb.cn/query/

云库居然没收录这局。

http://www.chessdb.cn/query/?9/9/4k4/9/9/4r4/2CR5/9/9/3K5%20w

聨吟客 · 发表于 2017-8-13 17:17:21

我的認知是紅勝不了,不知有何妙手請指點

(云庫變化太多太瑣碎看了頭暈暈.........

)
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老鸽子 · 发表于 2021-3-13 02:29:33

本帖最后由老鸽子于 2021-3-13 03:38 编辑

667 发表于 2017-8-13 13:08
http://www.chessdb.cn/query/

云库居然没收录这局。

李浭、陶诒谟《奇胜巧和象棋谱》有一相似局，名叫“巧夺中心”，红方车炮进三即黑方兵林线，黑车在红方宫心。虽子力位置略异，但着法应该相同，是红方必胜局。前几步着法同陈老师，但红炮不占黑方底线中路，而是移至黑方底线右侧。此时若黑车占据红方宫心，则红炮横向移动走闲(等着)，迫使黑车离开红方宫心。然后红车退至帅前，此时若黑将六平五，则红炮平中打车速胜；若黑将六退一，则红炮退八与红车同线，即可抢占中路获胜，共需22个回合。

老鸽子 · 发表于 2021-3-13 03:34:43

聨吟客发表于 2017-8-13 17:17
我的認知是紅勝不了,不知有何妙手請指點(云庫變化太多太瑣碎看了頭暈暈.........)

此局可以获胜啊，请参见上面注解。

yjr123 · 发表于 2021-3-13 10:18:58

老鸽子发表于 2021-3-13 03:34
此局可以获胜啊，请参见上面注解。

云库显示是和棋，如果此局没有棋规问题，那么和棋是肯定的，书上的结论都不一定正确的（书中第1回合退车抓炮是败着）。
我最早是在《北方棋艺》上看到安徽棋手皱立武的残局研究，和这个差不多，具体位置记不清了，胜法和你说的这本书差不多。

yjr123 · 发表于 2021-3-13 10:36:15

《北方棋艺》1979年第5期

★星海★ · 发表于 2021-3-13 21:56:38

yjr123 发表于 2017-8-13 16:37
http://www.chessdb.cn/query/?9/9/4k4/9/9/4r4/2CR5/9/9/3K5%20w

这个链接结论和棋，应该是棋规问题

老鸽子 · 发表于 2021-3-14 01:16:21

就这么个小局，竟然还藏着这样的历史和玄机！

yjr123 · 发表于 2021-3-14 07:33:20

★星海★ 发表于 2021-3-13 21:56
这个链接结论和棋，应该是棋规问题

应该没有棋规问题，红方取胜只有2条路径：沉底炮居中、车炮在自己下二路强行占中，但黑均可以阻止，没有办法。黑方守和要点是将居中路，车去阻扰红方组形。如皱立武的残局研究（车占中路）就是车炮巧胜。

邢春波 · 发表于 2021-3-14 12:11:49

红炮平二路则和，平三路会造成黑犯规

yjr123 · 发表于 2021-3-14 12:20:15

邢春波发表于 2021-3-14 12:11
红炮平二路则和，平三路会造成黑犯规

请列出具体着法，谢谢。

邢春波 · 发表于 2021-3-14 17:06:40

yjr123 发表于 2021-3-14 12:20
请列出具体着法，谢谢。

上面打错了，应是炮平七路
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yjr123 · 发表于 2021-3-14 17:28:43

嗯，还可以更简洁一些。

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聨吟客 · 发表于 2021-3-14 21:28:01

為何車要長捉炮造成犯規

聨吟客 · 发表于 2021-3-14 21:29:03

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聨吟客 · 发表于 2021-3-14 21:34:36

文字敘述看得霧煞煞

有人願意直接用東萍棋盤詳解嗎
謝謝

聨吟客 · 发表于 2021-3-14 22:04:03

這樣嗎

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聨吟客 · 发表于 2021-3-14 22:07:03

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聨吟客 · 发表于 2021-3-14 22:24:30

有點明白了

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