百25達者為師優化局變11的疑問

聨吟客

作者張云川,達者為師優化局,我對變11之疑問 [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999949990799439925999999422499999999403299990199999983235838[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]43470111072923242545405047571151455550405758[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_comment11]這樣呢[/DhtmlXQ_comment11][DhtmlXQ_comment3]||原譜變11[/DhtmlXQ_comment3] [/DhtmlXQ]

聨吟客

以前在百25投稿區我有提出過,但都沒人理,

柒匹狼

以前在百25投稿區我有提出過,但都沒人理,[/quote] 好像 红胜啊

聨吟客

我覺得卒3進1不是正著,大家認為呢

柒匹狼

我覺得卒3進1不是正著,大家認為呢[/quote] 车2平8 可好

象棋法官

第二回合卒3进1是败着。

聨吟客

當時也認為黑參考其他變著應可和,就卒3進1怪怪 的

柒匹狼

我覺得卒3進1不是正著,大家認為呢[/quote] [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999949990799439925999999422499999999403299990199999983235838[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]4347011107295848495911514252514125454171454840304849717447572324[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_comment1_11]這樣呢[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_11] [DhtmlXQ_comment3]||原譜變11[/DhtmlXQ_comment3] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_1]23242545405047571151455550405758[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_1] [/DhtmlXQ]

柒匹狼

看看我这里 那着是错的

zhaodi

原投稿棋谱

[DhtmlXQ]
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[DhtmlXQ_title]达者为师（优化局）- 张云川[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]和局[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_remark]张云川[/DhtmlXQ_remark]
[DhtmlXQ_author]会心斋[/DhtmlXQ_author]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment0]    近年，江湖上流行一则从台湾流传过来的名为\u0022达者为师\u0022的棋局，变化很精妙，可惜有棋例纠纷，不能正和，美中不足。笔者在其基础上，增加一兵两卒，成如图形式，即可消除缺憾，增加变化，臻于完善。||    在优化局势和完善着法的过程中，先后承蒙余俊瑞、龚伟、赵殿忠、王振、孙达军等棋友指出不当之处，特此鸣谢！||||        张云川||    2004年10月 初稿||    2013年06月 定稿||||[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1]！||以退为进，以守为攻，唯通达之人方能有此妙想，“达者为师”，此之谓也。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19]与上回合相似，仍不可兵七平六。[/DhtmlXQ_comment19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25]！||此时献兵，恰到好处！如坚持车六平四，将６平５，车四平六，将５平６，车六平四，循环不变，红一将一要抽吃，按国内比赛规则判黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment36]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_26]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_37]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_49]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_43]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_43]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_17]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_22]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_80]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_80]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_7]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_7]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_12]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_3]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_4]红方白白丢兵，黑胜定，例如接走——[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_4]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_23]双方循环不变，红一将一捉，黑一杀一闲，国内竞赛规则判黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_14]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_3]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_4]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_4]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_12]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_6]黑胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_6]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_4]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_4]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_5]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_9]红幸胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_3]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_10]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_10]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_8]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_3]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_4]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_4]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_14]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_16]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_20]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_3]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_8]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_14]黑优胜势，例如接走——[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_32]红方子力呆滞，无法阻止黑方进卒，黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_20]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_24]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_24]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_18]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_6]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_6]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_15]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18_6]与正局同，和棋。略。[/DhtmlXQ_comment18_6]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19_3]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment19_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19_10]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment19_10]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20_8]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment20_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21_19]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment21_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22_5]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment22_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22_6]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment22_6]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22_26]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment22_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_20]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment24_18]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment24_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25_8]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment25_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25_10]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment25_10]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26_6]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment26_6]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26_14]双方不变作和[/DhtmlXQ_comment26_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27_5]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment27_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27_34]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment27_34]
[DhtmlXQ_comment28_18]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment28_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29_4]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment29_4]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29_5]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment29_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29_11]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment29_11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29_25]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment29_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29_37]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment29_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment30_25]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment30_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment31_19]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment31_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment31_27]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment31_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment32_21]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment32_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment33_29]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment33_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment34_27]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment34_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment35_4]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment35_4]
[DhtmlXQ_comment35_5]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment35_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment35_29]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment35_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment36_13]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment36_13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment36_15]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment36_15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment37_9]殊途同归，红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment37_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment37_27]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment37_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment38_11]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment38_11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment38_13]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment38_13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment39_2]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment39_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment39_5]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment39_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment40_2]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment40_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment40_17]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment40_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment41_17]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment41_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment42_11]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment42_11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment43_5]红白得卒，胜定，例如接走——[/DhtmlXQ_comment43_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment43_31]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment43_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment44_2]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment44_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment44_37]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment44_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment45_23]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment45_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment46_25]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment46_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment47_31]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment47_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment48_17]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment48_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment48_27]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment48_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment49_17]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment49_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment50_9]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment50_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment50_11]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment50_11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment50_13]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment50_13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment50_29]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment50_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment50_41]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment50_41]
[DhtmlXQ_comment51_35]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment51_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment52_51]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment52_51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment53_29]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment53_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment54_21]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment54_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment55_11]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment55_11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment56_2]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment56_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment56_19]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment56_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment57_17]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment57_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment58_21]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment58_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment59_31]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment59_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment60_9]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment60_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment61_1]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment61_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment61_8]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment61_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment62_1]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment62_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment62_2]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment62_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment62_8]黑胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment62_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment63_6]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment63_6]
[DhtmlXQ_comment64_1]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment64_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment64_2]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment64_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment64_10]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment64_10]
[DhtmlXQ_comment65_1]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment65_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment65_8]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment65_8]
[DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]会心斋[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D29051%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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[/DhtmlXQ]

柒匹狼

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象棋法官

[/quote] 没有错，红接走兵四平五，演变下去和棋

柒匹狼

象棋法官 发表于 2014-10-13 20:13
没有错，红接走兵四平五，演变下去和棋

第五回合 不能车5平8  否则黑长杀

τ.半路浅唱

[DhtmlXQ]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment2_11]這樣呢[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3]||原譜變11[/DhtmlXQ_comment3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_3_1]4232405047571151255551413242384849394131553550405737405024343134424148493938584838483444374744474847[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_3_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_2]23242545405047571151455550405758[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_2]
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柒匹狼

τ.半路浅唱 发表于 2014-10-13 20:21

同样可以和  只是 卒6平5是黑方主动 车2平8是红方主动 而已

会心斋

11/12楼,红接走兵四平五，演变下去是不是红优? (与10楼第1回合卒6平5变相似)

聨吟客

達者為師原局也是鍾若文書上的

陳老的搜秘有介紹  大家都很熟知吧

有空我再補上

老鸽子

聨吟客 发表于 2022-10-27 02:16
達者為師原局也是鍾若文書上的

陳老的搜秘有介紹  大家都很熟知吧

《台湾民间排局辑刊》、张云川《象棋残局生死棋型》、钟志康《民间象棋排局》里也收录了原局。但后二者的原局（左右子力配置方向同主题帖）与前者及”搜秘“版本，左右子力配置方向相反。请问钟若文原局的子力配置方向与上述前者和”搜秘“版本完全相同吗？

聨吟客

鍾若文書上
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[DhtmlXQ_adddate]2022-06-20 14:34:34[/DhtmlXQ_adddate]
[DhtmlXQ_editdate]2022-06-20 14:34:34[/DhtmlXQ_editdate]
[DhtmlXQ_title]090、台湾江湖散局两则—达者为师[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]4447811142524030473711316535314152425848495941513555304037574030[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
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[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_length]56[/DhtmlXQ_length]
[DhtmlXQ_type]江湖残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_hits]52[/DhtmlXQ_hits]
[DhtmlXQ_sortid]17490720[/DhtmlXQ_sortid]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]南海逸仙[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_oldowner]南海逸仙[/DhtmlXQ_oldowner]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1]如走兵五平四、兵五平六、炮三平五都是黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2]黑如走将5平6则红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16]按亚洲棋规双方不变作和。||红方一将一要抽子，按国内棋规红应变。[/DhtmlXQ_comment16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_15]红得车胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_8]红无解黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_10]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_10]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_8]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_8]
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[/DhtmlXQ]

聨吟客

樓上走法經過修正

鍾的原走法主變走成長將居然判和  呵呵呵

而鍾的變三才是正解  同樓上走法

老鸽子

这样的话，钟若文原局、《台湾民间排局辑刊》、《江湖棋局搜秘》三版图式完全相同，而张云川《象棋残局生死棋型》、钟志康《民间象棋排局》，以及这里的主题帖这三版左右子力配置方向相反！