华工象棋论坛

标题: 【游戏局】车双马兵能困毙士象全吗？ [打印本页]
作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-8 14:27
标题: 【游戏局】车双马兵能困毙士象全吗？
[DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]4939999948999959999999469999999999992030405060999999999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_title]车双马兵能困毙铁士象吗？[/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [/DhtmlXQ]
作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-8 14:34
解释一下，1、这个铁士象不同于让车局的铁马炮和让双马局的铁中兵。士象可以随意走动，红方在任何时候都不得吃子。2、红方不能将死黑方，只可以困毙。
作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-8 15:43
应该叫单车双马单兵帅，能困毙黑将双士双象吗？ 答案：能！！
作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-8 15:52
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作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-8 16:09
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作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-8 17:43
[/quote] 如果黑方撑起两个羊角士，红方想困毙是很难的。
作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-8 23:10
如果黑方撑起两个羊角士，红方想困毙是很难的。[/quote] [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]4939999948999959999999469999999999992030405060999999999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_title]车双马兵能困毙铁士象吗？[/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]59675041675541525563304139274132271520024989608289798260797102246382240282614041152360426173414071315241736140502344505144635150311142241117244217574152485832415717422463445051443651501715505136174132151151501705244205134264464564824544826411316482132182643130505130400220617364427381426481626482628320024443022043332002332302202133324123224132222132412131413083623041407082647076648276168264161141303314648214358260352360822344826044636082637582607583608230413130204230408264625464825435422035432042836282645859648262708260[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_1]404167556042556320024989022089814140392730416382403027154260826120421523608223113031617342647352644282644645648245448264444364824353826453636482637382608171[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_1] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_32_2]515261404264464564824544826431114454648263715251113182644021648221138264545302203111648213052042051742241736240236558264536364826373022455432442[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_32_2] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_50_3]41301511515017053041051324421321413046454264454430416180413280723241111341321383648283630224636182647284648284638264617164827176826476162402161164826371505121133241443482641332644234330224332324022313[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_50_3] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_64_4]324161805040313340508072826433634132636164827284826484636482617182647176648276168264161164826371505121133241443482641332644234330224332324022313[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_64_4] [/DhtmlXQ]
作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-8 23:15
这二种形肯定走成。所以必困毙！ [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]1121999958999961999999469999999999990241505242999999999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_title]车双马兵能困毙铁士象吗？[/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [/DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]1121999958999963999999469999999999990232505242999999999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_title]车双马兵能困毙铁士象吗？[/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [/DhtmlXQ]
作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-8 23:40
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作者: 湖艓    时间: 2014-12-9 00:46
[/quote] 第十三回合 黑不下士呢？ 黑双士能否一直保持羊角不动 留到最后可以走闲？
作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-9 00:59
第十三回合 黑不下士呢？ 黑双士能否一直保持羊角不动 留到最后可以走闲？[/quote] [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]4939999948999959999999469999999999992030405060999999999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_title]车双马兵能困毙铁士象吗？[/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]5967504167554152556330413927413227152002498960828979826079710224638224028261404115236042617341407131426473614050485802243130505130402402464502246173240273816482816282644544022444342402234464823433022433232402232202242221240221310220404382604323200223210220313032413040608262708260443220422111[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_1]404167556042556320024989022089814140392730416382403027154260826120421523608223113031617342647352644282644645648245448264444364824353826453636482637382608171[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_1] [DhtmlXQ_move_5_56_2]24421321413046454264454430416180413280723241111341321383648283630224636182647284648284638264617164827176826476162402161164826371505121133241443482641332644234330224332324022313[/DhtmlXQ_move_5_56_2] [DhtmlXQ_move_5_64_3]51418263244221130220464542604544608213342002341502241523443482603433608223042402041602241635240235540224[/DhtmlXQ_move_5_64_3] [DhtmlXQ_move_3_67_4]58484264483864824645826445446482304041314454826063716042545342605363604263624260626102206151524121132002133402243422240240104152101302201363200263615241718360828362826051506082504002202210826062436042[/DhtmlXQ_move_3_67_4] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_26_5]524173614050234450514463515031114224111724421757415248583241571742246344505144365150171550513617413015115150170530410513413211313241132141323130505161823241304024428274426474620224464524024544648244438264433364823323413221130220232220022221022021313241407041327073826073236082232132413130204230404220213120023111826413326442625402245446240246340224585724023413[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_26_5] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_64_6]6082313032413040826444326442625402245446240246340224211124023413[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_64_6] [/DhtmlXQ]
作者: 湖艓    时间: 2014-12-9 01:01
高原红 发表于 2014-12-9 00:59

原来是分几个步骤禁士啊
作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-9 10:36
高原红 发表于 2014-12-8 23:40

9楼思路正确，走到31回合，看到了胜利的曙光。
51、52回合应退士。
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作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-9 10:41
本帖最后由 ★星海★ 于 2014-12-9 16:25 编辑

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作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-9 11:53
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作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-9 12:17
本帖最后由 高原红 于 2014-12-9 12:27 编辑

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作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-9 16:00
高原红 发表于 2014-12-9 12:17
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作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-9 16:15
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作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-9 16:28
估计会有速胜，60回合以内应该没问题。
作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-9 19:21
标题: 黑方阻止红车走进将府，60回合以内还不容易解决
本帖最后由 ★星海★ 于 2014-12-9 21:12 编辑

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作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-9 21:14
★星海★ 发表于 2014-12-9 19:21

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作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-9 21:39
补充变化：
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作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-9 22:14
本帖最后由 高原红 于 2014-12-9 22:16 编辑
★星海★ 发表于 2014-12-9 21:39
补充变化：


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作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-9 22:18
高原红 发表于 2014-12-9 21:14

好像还不对，这样如何速胜？
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作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-9 22:27
本帖最后由 ★星海★ 于 2014-12-9 22:34 编辑
高原红 发表于 2014-12-9 22:14

23楼还能速胜
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作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-9 22:43
黑方应该有更顽强的走法，
看来找到双方最佳着法还不容易。
作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-9 22:45
本帖最后由 高原红 于 2014-12-9 23:03 编辑
★星海★ 发表于 2014-12-9 22:18
好像还不对，这样如何速胜？


你进兵太猛了点！就你认为不行的这形，变化到原来研究过的着法同样可困毙！.

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作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-9 23:10
哦，我是说这样不能速胜。
作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-9 23:16
中兵和边兵基本可以确定能困毙，只是最佳着法还要费脑筋。
兵在三、七路就很难了。黑方可以在河口放一铁象阻挡红兵过河。
作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-9 23:35
★星海★ 发表于 2014-12-9 23:16
中兵和边兵基本可以确定能困毙，只是最佳着法还要费脑筋。
兵在三、七路就很难了。黑方可以在河口放一铁象 ...

可以再探讨一下！自娱自乐很开心！
作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-9 23:43
高原红 发表于 2014-12-9 23:35
可以再探讨一下！自娱自乐很开心！

应该有办法过，红方要玩一出捉放曹的游戏，步数会很多。
软件完全帮不上忙了，全靠脑力
作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-10 11:40
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作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-10 12:55
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作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-10 12:59
本帖最后由 高原红 于 2014-12-10 13:19 编辑

只有将黑将赶到兵的另一边，兵才能渡河！
如在同一边则：
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作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-10 13:19
高原红 发表于 2014-12-10 12:59
只有将黑将赶到兵的另一边，兵才能渡河！
如在同一也则：

对，所以前面要走很多步数，兵过河后还要再困一次黑将。
作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-10 15:24
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作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-10 21:44
本帖最后由 ★星海★ 于 2014-12-11 14:53 编辑

17回合黑方不动士为好，步数较多。
红方还需调整走法
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[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D33447%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-11 13:09
本帖最后由 ★星海★ 于 2014-12-11 17:46 编辑

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[DhtmlXQ_title]车双马兵困毙[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-11 22:11
本帖最后由 高原红 于 2014-12-11 22:20 编辑

第32回黑方应走士5退4！有许多变化。
第36回应象3退1！红车无法移开中路！如移开将可平中路！
作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-11 22:25
本帖最后由 高原红 于 2014-12-11 22:59 编辑

是否应这样走！
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[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]
作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-11 22:34
本帖最后由 高原红 于 2014-12-11 22:39 编辑

看来还很复杂！也可能是顺序问题！这几天上网发东西太难发上，要重复点多次才发的成功。不知啥原因？
作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-12 04:09
本帖最后由 ★星海★ 于 2014-12-12 13:05 编辑
高原红 发表于 2014-12-11 22:25
是否应这样走！

29回合象５进７比较好。
32回合将6平5不妥，车九平六再马一退二困毙。

作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-12 13:04
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[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D33447%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]
作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-12 13:25
本帖最后由 ★星海★ 于 2014-12-13 21:26 编辑

按照方权老师29回合车六平九的走法，能走到百回合之内。
我觉得红方最佳走法应少于80回合。

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[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_20_60_21]41526182505101004220826351500001[/DhtmlXQ_move_20_60_21]
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[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D33447%26page%3D2%26extra%3D[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]
作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-12 14:43
本帖最后由 ★星海★ 于 2014-12-13 21:24 编辑

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[DhtmlXQ_title]车双马兵困毙[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
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[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D33447%26page%3D2%26extra%3D[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]
作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-14 03:44
★星海★ 发表于 2014-12-12 14:43

第72回马四退五家3退5，在平兵……即困死了！
作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-14 09:46
本帖最后由 ★星海★ 于 2014-12-14 09:51 编辑
高原红 发表于 2014-12-14 03:44
第72回马四退五家3退5，在平兵……即困死了！

方权老师意见正确。
58回合应车五平六更快。

作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-14 11:42
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
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[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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作者: 迟暮寒士    时间: 2014-12-14 11:42
       A、红棋明明一下就能将死黑方，却不能那样走。B、黑棋明明那样走会被将死，却偏偏那样走。C、黑方为了不被困毙，可以不顾被将死的危险，大胆走棋。D、红方只允许困毙黑方，为了达到此目的，还要躲着黑将走，以免不小心将死黑将。
    由于以上几点特殊情况与正常下棋时的的情况不同，一下子难以适应，所以，总觉得思维会存在很大的盲点，所列着法难免会有一些错误。
作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-14 16:07
本帖最后由 高原红 于 2014-12-14 16:15 编辑

第61回应该这样走！还可速胜！

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作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-14 20:30
高原红 发表于 2014-12-14 16:07
第61回应该这样走！还可速胜！

72回合了，和我最开始的推测很接近
这局棋最佳着法估计就是70回合左右。
作者: 2521368    时间: 2014-12-14 22:13
净玩些没用的。
这个论坛悲哀啊
作者: 橘中搜秘    时间: 2014-12-14 22:34
本帖最后由 橘中搜秘 于 2014-12-15 08:01 编辑
2521368 发表于 2014-12-14 22:13
净玩些没用的。
这个论坛悲哀啊

这个论坛怎么悲哀了？
这叫排局，你不懂。象棋是一种游戏而已。
琴棋书画，不过是益智健脑，修身养性，除此之外还有什么用？


作者: 2521368    时间: 2014-12-15 14:06
橘中搜秘 发表于 2014-12-14 22:34
这个论坛怎么悲哀了？
这叫排局，你不懂。象棋是一种游戏而已。
琴棋书画，不过是益智健脑，修身养性， ...

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作者: 橘中搜秘    时间: 2014-12-15 14:59
2521368 发表于 2014-12-15 14:06


解你这东西有用吗?
作者: 2521368    时间: 2014-12-15 17:58
橘中搜秘 发表于 2014-12-15 14:59
解你这东西有用吗?

因为你不会
作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-15 19:29
本帖最后由 ★星海★ 于 2014-12-17 10:56 编辑

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作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-17 01:59
★星海★ 发表于 2014-12-15 19:29

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作者: ★星海★    时间: 2014-12-17 10:44
本帖最后由 ★星海★ 于 2014-12-17 10:59 编辑
高原红 发表于 2014-12-17 01:59

几个变化都是75回合。
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作者: 高原红    时间: 2014-12-17 17:22
本帖最后由 高原红 于 2014-12-17 17:23 编辑

这样设计好看！
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[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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