瓮中捉鳖

迟暮寒士

象棋法官 发表于 2014-10-14 21:18
这样捉不死黑炮，但黑方也很难守和。

如果捉不死黑炮，黑炮在红方宫中镇守中路，红方胜不了。

象棋法官

迟暮寒士 发表于 2014-10-14 21:28
如果捉不死黑炮，黑炮在红方宫中镇守中路，红方胜不了。

30楼着法你走走看

邢春波

迟暮寒士 发表于 2014-10-14 20:51
回复8#邢春波：
       第19步，红方兵三进一，黑方如果不走卒7进1吃兵，改走将5平6。第20步，不论红走兵 ...

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[DhtmlXQ_owner]古婺[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_oldowner]古婺[/DhtmlXQ_oldowner]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_12]红劣黑幸和[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_9]过早进兵，被黑兑掉，黑幸和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_17]余着红按正变取胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11]无中生有的妙招，正确的进攻路线。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19]大胆兵，舍身象口！[/DhtmlXQ_comment19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_9]此路着法红也可胜，步数略缓。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_35]后面着法与主变同。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14]保持黑象中路防守，此路变化黑比较顽强。[/DhtmlXQ_comment14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_14]若黑象边线防守，红可早胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_29]后面着法与主变同。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13]炮进此线，要着，为进兵做准备。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_16]黑想兑红兵，速败，红炮关门打狗，可提前消灭黑炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_29]突兀冷着，退帅捉死炮，前面一系列运炮，献兵，都是为了此最终目的。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_31]至此，红完成捉炮，今进入例胜残局阶段，但也颇费曲折。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_20]若吃兵，红可提前关门打狗，消灭黑炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21]迫使黑将离开中线！否则红若炮平象眼，黑可将5平6牵制住红炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25]献兵为红炮关门打狗战术打通道路。[/DhtmlXQ_comment25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3]将底献车，阴险毒辣之着。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8]黑不轻易进卒，比较顽强。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8]
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迟暮寒士

象棋法官 发表于 2014-10-14 21:29
30楼着法你走走看

确实是例胜残局，只是想如何瓮中捉鳖，没有想到用与主题相背的着法也可取胜。
余老师提到的着法，黑卒不吃红兵，放红兵过河，也可瓮中捉鳖，着法也不错。

柒匹狼

yjr123 发表于 2014-10-14 21:04
我在23楼就提出此变化，瓮中捉鳖的着法没有列出。

余老师的意思好像是这个

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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_11]6364808340418363414066656465585949696369[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3]将底献车，阴险毒辣之着。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8]黑不轻易进卒，比较顽强。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11]无中生有的妙招，正确的进攻路线。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13]炮进此线，要着，为进兵做准备。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14]保持黑象中路防守，此路变化黑比较顽强。[/DhtmlXQ_comment14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19]大胆兵，舍身象口！[/DhtmlXQ_comment19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21]迫使黑将离开中线！否则红若炮平象眼，黑可将5平6牵制住红炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25]献兵为红炮关门打狗战术打通道路。[/DhtmlXQ_comment25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_29]突兀冷着，退帅捉死炮，前面一系列运炮，献兵，都是为了此最终目的。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_31]至此，红完成捉炮，今进入例胜残局阶段，但也颇费曲折。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_20]若吃兵，红可提前关门打狗，消灭黑炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_16]黑想兑红兵，速败，红炮关门打狗，可提前消灭黑炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_14]若黑象边线防守，红可早胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_29]后面着法与主变同。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_9]过早进兵，被黑兑掉，黑幸和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_12]红劣黑幸和[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_9]此路着法红也可胜，步数略缓。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_35]后面着法与主变同。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_17]余着红按正变取胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_17]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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迟暮寒士

柒匹狼 发表于 2014-10-14 21:57
余老师的意思好像是这个

       我刚才按照我的理解，试走了一下，行不通，才知道理解错了。你的着法应该是是于老师的意思。红方炮和高兵巧妙摆脱了黑将的拴链。

柒匹狼

迟暮寒士 发表于 2014-10-14 22:07
我刚才按照我的理解，试走了一下，行不通，才知道理解错了。你的着法是于老师的意思？

这路变化并不比主变差，第15回合黑要象5进7也很精彩。

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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_12]6364808340418363414066656465585949696369[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3]将底献车，阴险毒辣之着。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8]黑不轻易进卒，比较顽强。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11]无中生有的妙招，正确的进攻路线。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13]炮进此线，要着，为进兵做准备。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14]保持黑象中路防守，此路变化黑比较顽强。[/DhtmlXQ_comment14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19]大胆兵，舍身象口！[/DhtmlXQ_comment19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21]迫使黑将离开中线！否则红若炮平象眼，黑可将5平6牵制住红炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25]献兵为红炮关门打狗战术打通道路。[/DhtmlXQ_comment25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_29]突兀冷着，退帅捉死炮，前面一系列运炮，献兵，都是为了此最终目的。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_31]至此，红完成捉炮，今进入例胜残局阶段，但也颇费曲折。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_20]若吃兵，红可提前关门打狗，消灭黑炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_16]黑想兑红兵，速败，红炮关门打狗，可提前消灭黑炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_14]若黑象边线防守，红可早胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_29]后面着法与主变同。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_9]过早进兵，被黑兑掉，黑幸和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_12]红劣黑幸和[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_9]此路着法红也可胜，步数略缓。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_35]后面着法与主变同。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_17]余着红按正变取胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_17]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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象棋法官

柒匹狼 发表于 2014-10-14 21:57
余老师的意思好像是这个

好像不是这个意思，象可是有机会飞到右边的。

柒匹狼

象棋法官 发表于 2014-10-14 22:11
好像不是这个意思，象可是有机会飞到右边的。

第15回合飞右也没用

象棋法官

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[DhtmlXQ_comment3]将底献车，阴险毒辣之着。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8]黑不轻易进卒，比较顽强。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11]无中生有的妙招，正确的进攻路线。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13]炮进此线，要着，为进兵做准备。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14]保持黑象中路防守，此路变化黑比较顽强。[/DhtmlXQ_comment14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19]大胆兵，舍身象口！[/DhtmlXQ_comment19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21]迫使黑将离开中线！否则红若炮平象眼，黑可将5平6牵制住红炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25]献兵为红炮关门打狗战术打通道路。[/DhtmlXQ_comment25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_29]突兀冷着，退帅捉死炮，前面一系列运炮，献兵，都是为了此最终目的。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_31]至此，红完成捉炮，今进入例胜残局阶段，但也颇费曲折。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_20]若吃兵，红可提前关门打狗，消灭黑炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_16]黑想兑红兵，速败，红炮关门打狗，可提前消灭黑炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_14]若黑象边线防守，红可早胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_29]后面着法与主变同。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_9]过早进兵，被黑兑掉，黑幸和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_12]红劣黑幸和[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_9]此路着法红也可胜，步数略缓。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_35]后面着法与主变同。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_17]余着红按正变取胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_17]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
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[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D32963%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

柒匹狼

象棋法官 发表于 2014-10-14 22:18

恩，把退底忽略了。

柒匹狼

象棋法官 发表于 2014-10-14 22:18

吃不到炮就不吃了，改做杀。

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
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[DhtmlXQ_title]瓮中捉鳖（红胜）--朱小坚[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]5550404150404140374859495758404180874140871740411713414066654041001041401020404120304131135331306564304064634050535742206353504057674050676120425352426061686042585949695949697952425040483779764241405068587646495946263948[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_12]6364808340418363414066656465585949696369[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3]将底献车，阴险毒辣之着。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8]黑不轻易进卒，比较顽强。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11]无中生有的妙招，正确的进攻路线。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13]炮进此线，要着，为进兵做准备。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14]保持黑象中路防守，此路变化黑比较顽强。[/DhtmlXQ_comment14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19]大胆兵，舍身象口！[/DhtmlXQ_comment19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21]迫使黑将离开中线！否则红若炮平象眼，黑可将5平6牵制住红炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25]献兵为红炮关门打狗战术打通道路。[/DhtmlXQ_comment25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_29]突兀冷着，退帅捉死炮，前面一系列运炮，献兵，都是为了此最终目的。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_31]至此，红完成捉炮，今进入例胜残局阶段，但也颇费曲折。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_20]若吃兵，红可提前关门打狗，消灭黑炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_16]黑想兑红兵，速败，红炮关门打狗，可提前消灭黑炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_14]若黑象边线防守，红可早胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_29]后面着法与主变同。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_9]过早进兵，被黑兑掉，黑幸和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_12]红劣黑幸和[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_9]此路着法红也可胜，步数略缓。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_35]后面着法与主变同。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_17]余着红按正变取胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_17]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
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[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

yjr123

柒匹狼 发表于 2014-10-14 22:52
吃不到炮就不吃了，改做杀。

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]5599693757399999998099006699999948994299409999999959996399999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]瓮中捉鳖（红胜）--朱小坚[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]55504041504041403748594957584041808741408717404117134140666540410010414010204041203041311353313065643040646340505357422063535040535220025717405017100224101350405262[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3]将底献车，阴险毒辣之着。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8]黑不轻易进卒，比较顽强。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11]无中生有的妙招，正确的进攻路线。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13]炮进此线，要着，为进兵做准备。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14]保持黑象中路防守，此路变化黑比较顽强。[/DhtmlXQ_comment14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19]大胆兵，舍身象口！[/DhtmlXQ_comment19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21]迫使黑将离开中线！否则红若炮平象眼，黑可将5平6牵制住红炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25]献兵为红炮关门打狗战术打通道路。[/DhtmlXQ_comment25]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_40_4]244258594969135350405242[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_40_4][DhtmlXQ_comment4_45]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_45]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D32963%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

古婺

多谢各位的补充分析，让红兵过河吃卒，优势比较明显，不捉炮也胜。

yjr123

13回合黑卒7进1，至16回合成例胜残局。
13回合黑将4平5，20回合象3退5，至23回合成例胜残局。
13回合黑将4平5，20回合将6平5……

象棋法官

yjr123 发表于 2014-10-15 08:57
13回合黑卒7进1，至16回合成例胜残局。
13回合黑将4平5，20回合象3退5，至23回合成例胜残局。
13回合黑将 ...

例胜残局难度不同，我认为朱兄的选择正确。

象棋法官

炮高兵单缺象对炮单象应该是例胜吧？那么14回合就已经……