定式残局

zhaodi

如52楼、56楼我所发帖，都是速胜或者有棋规疑问的，应该可以说明了。

yjr123

zhaodi 发表于 2014-10-15 10:48
不用仔细研究，绝对有速胜。因为棋规问题，红方会主动规避让黑方犯规的速胜着法，意思就是：我不用棋规也能 ...

菜鸟的残局库并不按照这些原则，如58楼倒数第2回合，黑方按照此原则应该飞中象，但却走卒，被红一步杀。

菜鸟来玩

原帖删除，敬请谅解。

柒匹狼

菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-10-15 11:49
明白你的意思了，就是说必须杀光头才算输。 还有56楼，你走了一步马八退七，居然步数增加了2回合。

这残局库好，可以直接连着棋软运行。

zhaodi

菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-10-15 11:49
明白你的意思了，就是说必须杀光头才算输。 还有56楼，你走了一步马八退七，居然步数增加了2回合。

回复63楼，对56楼的棋局疑问探讨。

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
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[DhtmlXQ_title]残局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_date]2014-10-06[/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place]华山[/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_red]A8(日帅)[/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black]老烟枪无敌(9星)[/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment15]红走此步黑会如何？[/DhtmlXQ_comment15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment28]多将一捉。黑负。||||如按图片中的分值，改走象7退5，则就成为558着吃子了，即红比走马八退六的726着快了168着吃子。[/DhtmlXQ_comment28]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D32866%26page%3D3%26extra%3D%23pid238495[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

yjr123

菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-10-15 11:49
明白你的意思了，就是说必须杀光头才算输。 还有56楼，你走了一步马八退七，居然步数增加了2回合。

不是杀光头才算输，而是将被捉住就算输！

象棋法官

这是两种社会制度与价值观的碰撞。
一个是平均主义，人人平等，这是类似“太平天国”的理想。
一个是阶级制度，统治者凌驾于平民百姓之上。
残局库用的是前者，
中国象棋的棋规沿用了后者。

菜鸟来玩

zhaodi 发表于 2014-10-15 15:19
回复63楼，对56楼的棋局疑问探讨。

63楼图解，车2平3

菜鸟来玩

原帖删除，敬请谅解。

菜鸟来玩

原帖删除，敬请谅解。

yjr123

菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-10-15 21:41
63楼图解，车2平3

65楼已经列出着法，车2平3后红接走马七进八。

yjr123

菜鸟残局库红胜结论绝大部分是成立的，但所拟着法存在问题，有速胜和缓负着法，这里再举一个不牵涉棋规可以速胜的例子：

这是菜鸟发在30楼的棋局，第54回合残局库红方走兵四平五弃子，实际上直接进兵就可以速胜

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[DhtmlXQ_comment1]score:19905 time:14774 side:1[/DhtmlXQ_comment1]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment1_116]score:19992 time:94[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_116]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_117]score:19993 time:124[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_117]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_118]score:19994 time:78[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_118]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_119]score:19995 time:141[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_119]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_120]score:19996 time:93[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_120]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_121]score:19997 time:110[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_121]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_122]score:19998 time:93[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_122]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_123]黑方被将死,红方胜！||||红方分数：19999||黑方用时：     8.816秒||红方用时：     6.768秒||双方实际花费时间：    15.584秒||||棋谱由象棋桥生成。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_123]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
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[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D32866%26page%3D1%26extra%3D%23pid238552[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

菜鸟来玩

yjr123 发表于 2014-10-16 07:42
65楼已经列出着法，车2平3后红接走马七进八。

呵呵，马八退六你不走，非要走马八退七。

yjr123

菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-10-16 09:52
呵呵，马八退六你不走，非要走马八退七。

因为马八退七要比退六提早一百多步取胜

就如72楼我指出的，第54回合你偏要走兵四平五（8个回合取胜），而大部分人都会走兵五进一（4个回合取胜）。

柒匹狼

yjr123 发表于 2014-10-16 12:50
因为马八退七要比退六提早一百多步取胜

就如72楼我指出的，第54回合你偏要走兵四平五（8个回合取胜） ...

残局库一般给的结论如果不按大陆棋规基本上是没有争议的，但是有时候在着法选择上是有出处的。就像PAI库那个车炮士对车双象一样 明明11回合平帅回中就可以得子。可残局库的推荐着法却不是，这个原因可能导致软件直接按着残局库的推荐指示走而造成的。

菜鸟来玩

原帖删除，敬请谅解。

柒匹狼

菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-10-16 18:21
残局库是从小库到大库发展的，比如说红双车对黑单马，红在单车必胜的情况下，有可能会送一个车给黑马吃掉 ...

如果一天能跑出来你现在这么大的库，我就造一个。

菜鸟来玩

柒匹狼 发表于 2014-10-16 19:42
如果一天能跑出来你现在这么大的库，我就造一个。

现在的库相对于象棋来说，就如同一粒沙子跟宇宙的对比，太渺小了，所以，不能动不动就给象棋下定义，古人常说，无知者无畏。

柒匹狼

菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-10-16 19:45
现在的库相对于象棋来说，就如同一粒沙子跟宇宙的对比，太渺小了，所以，不能动不动就给象棋下定义，古人 ...

不知道你知不知道EVE这个游戏，大的真的是好离谱的。跟残局库很像

菜鸟来玩

知道，这个游戏需要大量的时间与精力。建造各种武器装备，太空游戏。

象棋法官

菜鸟来玩 发表于 2014-10-15 11:49
明白你的意思了，就是说必须杀光头才算输。 还有56楼，你走了一步马八退七，居然步数增加了2回合。

看明白了
63#

残局库为什么马八退七比马八退六步数多？
现行棋规是让黑方变着，残局库是让红方变着，走缓胜的着法。

菜鸟来玩

原帖删除，敬请谅解。

菜鸟来玩

原帖删除，敬请谅解。

★星海★

zhaodi 发表于 2014-10-15 10:48
不用仔细研究，绝对有速胜。因为棋规问题，红方会主动规避让黑方犯规的速胜着法，意思就是：我不用棋规也能 ...

赵老师发现有速胜，按国内的棋规确实如此。
残局库优先考虑无棋规纠纷的着法也是有道理的。
按照当前棋，60回合就应判和了。研究此胜法就是默认了不受当前棋规限制。
现行棋规是专业棋手的必修课，民间棋手就不必了。普通的对弈，没有专业裁判，也不可能完全遵守棋规。棋规来回修改也从未考虑民间的感受。
离开专业比赛，象棋一样会流传，脱离群众基础，象棋肯定会玩完。任你棋规如何变，我以不变应万变，是民间最好的对策。
残局库避开棋规纠纷，也是应对棋规频改的办法。

zhaodi

★星海★ 发表于 2015-8-19 10:04
赵老师发现有速胜，按国内的棋规确实如此。
残局库优先考虑无棋规纠纷的着法也是有道理的。
按照当前棋 ...

有个类比，谁主张谁举证。如棋局，红方说胜定，红方就应该主动走出红胜的着法，而不管黑方如何应招，都能红胜。黑方要尽可能迟负
这是残局库的理论依据，黑方就算走出规则禁止的着法，红方可以变也照样赢。但是否太过于谦让对方了。

这里面有个底线问题，黑方长将行吗？绝对不行。那长捉行吗？也不行。那一将一捉、多将一捉行不行？长要杀、长要吃行不行？这就是个底线问题，也就是说，基本的规则还是要有的，而这个基本的规则，民间也没有严格的规定。

聨吟客

菜鳥為何要把圖都刪除了呢? 就算有規則的討論也沒關係呀, 那是常有的事

一杯红酒

维护个人完美形象要紧，某些举动敬请谅解；只要守住裤腰带（民规，原本无定论的来做依托说事），就还能堂而皇之嘛！