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本帖最后由 chouzhouyu 于 2018-9-29 12:47 编辑
对本局的胜和结论本人还不十分确认。经我拆解黑胜的着法都有一些问题。
重新编辑了一下，加入了朱鹤洲2000年版本的着法链接。
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[DhtmlXQ_title]寒松卧壑(二集局31,1817年版本)（暂诠为和棋）[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_result]和局[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_author]弈聪[/DhtmlXQ_author]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment0]分类:双车单炮类||竹谱二17局寒松卧壑,心谱18局五色纷披,心谱17局琴瑟间钟.竹谱二31局寒松卧壑(1817年版本)||||弈聪注：该局原局未走完即判和局。现很多诠注本续走都认为是黑胜。但我发现黑胜着法有问题，红方实际都可走和。目前为止我尚未找到黑必胜的走法。大征西在鸿弈网中曾发过一贴，也认为黑胜。其变化已加入本局中。||||||||对胜和未十分把握。先发论坛求助。||||||[FEN=4k4/1P7/b2P5/9/9/4P4/9/B8/p4p3/3K2c2 w - - 0 11]竹谱一本，和[/FEN]||||||[FEN=9/4k4/2P6/5P3/9/9/9/B2K5/3pp4/4c4 w - - 10 26]大征西论友黑胜主变？[/FEN]||||[FEN=5k3/4c4/9/5P3/2b6/9/9/B4K3/3pp4/9 w - - 0 24]白宏宽版本黑胜？[/FEN]||||||【zqhuang注】本局在朱鶴洲.蒋权.裘望禹整理的《竹香斋象戏谱》里被诠释正为黑胜。但我认为红方有顽强的走法可以守和。||||[FEN=9/4k4/9/4c4/2b6/2B6/9/3K5/4pp3/9 w - - 0 46]朱蒋裘版本黑胜？[/FEN]||||弈聪注：朱鹤洲在2000年单独出过一本诠注本，其后续走法认为是和棋。其后续和棋着法链接如下。||||[FEN=4k4/1P7/b2P5/9/9/4P4/9/B8/p4p3/3K2c2 w - - 0 11]朱鹤洲版本和棋着法，先转到原局结尾再链接[/FEN]|||| 【大征西】我认为即使不按诠正着法走,最终也是黑胜!![/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22]和。竹谱一本。续弈黑可胜。||||原谱至此即判和局,其实此时形势黑优可胜,故原谱判和有误,走下去黑方可胜.但黑要获胜,亦非简易,必须经过一番艰苦曲折的搏斗,才能获得!!|| 本局黑胜可分三阶段,先看第一阶段着法:||||弈聪注：以上为网上的其他人论点。红本人拆解，黑胜走法有误。胜和待进一步拆解。黑要取胜，将必须居中露头。满足这个条件，即可判黑胜了。但现有的黑胜着法红都有办法应对成和。||||网上黑胜着法是老将上顶居中。||||红方中间许多走法应该可调换一下走子顺序，一种走法和的话，其它走法也基本上成和。||||||[FEN=9/2P1P4/4k4/9/6b2/9/9/3KB4/3pp4/3c5 w - - 42 39]云库自动拆解黑胜着法1[/FEN]||||朱鹤洲2000年版本下步走帅六进一，黑有两种应着，炮7平4和炮7平5，都认为是和棋。||||[FEN=5c3/6P2/5k3/4P4/2b6/2B6/9/4K4/p4p3/9 b - - 5 23]朱鹤洲2000年版本和棋着法1[/FEN]||||[FEN=9/3P1k3/3P5/5P3/2b6/2B6/9/3K5/2p1p4/4c4 b - - 19 21]朱鹤洲2000年版本和棋着法2[/FEN]||||[FEN=9/3PP4/5k3/4P4/6b2/2B6/9/3K5/4pp3/7c1 b - - 41 32]朱鹤洲2000年版本和棋着法3[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23]云库下步走象1进3。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25]竹香斋象戏谱（朱鶴洲.蒋权.裘望禹）给出的诠正着法里是这样走，结果黑胜||||注解合并：||! 红此时这样走,使黑胜之路变得很漫长!![/DhtmlXQ_comment25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment32]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment41]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment41]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_45]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_33]？？[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_48]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_48]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_92]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_92]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_92]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_92]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_47]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_47]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_59]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_59]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_38]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_92]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_92]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_92]亦黑胜![/DhtmlXQ_comment9_92]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_47]以下用相走闲着,亦可成和![/DhtmlXQ_comment10_47]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_45]||至此,形成双方互相牵制,黑方难胜![/DhtmlXQ_comment11_45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_63]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_63]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_45]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_47]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_47]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_41]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_41]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_44]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_44]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_25]【zqhuang注】这样更顽强||||弈聪注：各种走法基本殊途同归。一种走法和的话，其它走法也应该和。因为黑要胜的话，1路卒要并拢。中间有很多步要走，这期间红调换一下走子顺序最后应该会走成相同的局面。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_27][FEN=4k4/2P6/3P5/9/2b6/4P4/9/B2K5/p4p3/4c4 b - - 5 14]相同局面[/FEN]||||[FEN=9/4k4/9/9/2b6/9/9/3K5/2p2p1c1/6B2 w - - 12 31]云库自动拆解黑胜着法[/FEN]||||云库执黑，本人执红，黑好象没变招余地。成和。红按以下主变走，看黑什么地方变招。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_28]亦可!||||弈聪注：应该是正招。应该成和？[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_48]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_48]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18_35]下见相同局面。[/DhtmlXQ_comment18_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19_90]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment19_90]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20_35]和？[/DhtmlXQ_comment20_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20_52]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment20_52]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21_35]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment21_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21_70]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment21_70]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22_29]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment22_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22_30]![/DhtmlXQ_comment22_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22_34]黑可胜!？[/DhtmlXQ_comment22_34]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22_80]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment22_80]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_41]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_41]
[DhtmlXQ_comment24_36]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment24_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25_39]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment25_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26_34]黑亦可胜!||||弈聪：和？[/DhtmlXQ_comment26_34]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27_31]这样和主变相同[/DhtmlXQ_comment27_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment28_62]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment28_62]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29_28]取胜之关键一着!||||||弈聪注：感觉是软着。黑要取胜，老将必须居中，想办法消灭红兵。现移开中路，感觉有问题。走这步棋目的应该是老将上顶后再居中。[/DhtmlXQ_comment29_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29_30]!||||弈聪：经本人拆解，该路变化和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment29_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29_32]这样黑可胜!||||弈聪注：可能还是和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment29_32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29_35]弈聪注：本人拆解的招法。黑能胜否。不要怕红兵被黑炮打。[/DhtmlXQ_comment29_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29_37]或动相走闲，黑将无法居中，和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment29_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29_38]黑走其它，红帅居中。[/DhtmlXQ_comment29_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29_54]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment29_54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment30_35]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment30_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment30_52]黑胜![/DhtmlXQ_comment30_52]
[DhtmlXQ_comment32_44]黑胜定! ![/DhtmlXQ_comment32_44]
[DhtmlXQ_comment33_34]!![/DhtmlXQ_comment33_34]
[DhtmlXQ_comment33_37]若如此循环下去,我认为此时应由红方变着!![/DhtmlXQ_comment33_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment33_38]即使黑主动变着,如此走下去也是黑胜![/DhtmlXQ_comment33_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment33_39]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment33_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment33_44]至此,黑可胜!![/DhtmlXQ_comment33_44]
[DhtmlXQ_comment33_52]黑胜定![/DhtmlXQ_comment33_52]
[DhtmlXQ_comment34_38]\u003F||||注解合并：||即使黑主动变着弃象,走下去也是黑胜![/DhtmlXQ_comment34_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment34_54]至此,又应胜反和矣![/DhtmlXQ_comment34_54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment35_45]黑应胜反和![/DhtmlXQ_comment35_45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment36_46]至此,黑可胜![/DhtmlXQ_comment36_46]
[DhtmlXQ_comment37_36]黑可胜![/DhtmlXQ_comment37_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment37_37]已和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment37_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment38_37]？？为何要送掉。动相走闲即可。[/DhtmlXQ_comment38_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment38_40]黑炮再消灭一个红兵后,即可胜定![/DhtmlXQ_comment38_40]
[DhtmlXQ_comment41_49]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment41_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment42_56]黑胜定!![/DhtmlXQ_comment42_56]
[DhtmlXQ_comment43_56]黑胜定![/DhtmlXQ_comment43_56]
[DhtmlXQ_comment46_60]黑炮打掉两兵后,胜定![/DhtmlXQ_comment46_60]
[DhtmlXQ_comment48_37]？？[/DhtmlXQ_comment48_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment48_38]黑可胜![/DhtmlXQ_comment48_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment49_37]动相走闲，使黑将无法居中即和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment49_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment50_36]黑亦可胜![/DhtmlXQ_comment50_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment51_40]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment51_40]
[DhtmlXQ_comment52_40]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment52_40]
[DhtmlXQ_comment53_38]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment53_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment54_35]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment54_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment55_36]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment55_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment56_30]亦可胜!（？？？）[/DhtmlXQ_comment56_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment56_31]已和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment56_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment57_43]红优[/DhtmlXQ_comment57_43]
[DhtmlXQ_comment58_38]和棋[/DhtmlXQ_comment58_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment59_36]劣[/DhtmlXQ_comment59_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment59_37]这样反成红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment59_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment60_26][FEN=4k4/1P7/b2P5/9/9/4P4/9/B2K5/1p3p3/4c4 w - - 4 13]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment60_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment60_31]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment60_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment60_51]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment60_51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment61_47]以下炮要防双兵杀，无法捉死相。和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment61_47]
[DhtmlXQ_comment63_41]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment63_41]
[DhtmlXQ_comment64_33]![/DhtmlXQ_comment64_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment64_54]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment64_54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment65_34]感觉打这个兵太早。应该想办法先打红六路兵。[/DhtmlXQ_comment65_34]
[DhtmlXQ_comment65_37]感觉上仅稍好些!即使走成这样,黑还要多费周折![/DhtmlXQ_comment65_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment66_38]!黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment66_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment67_42]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment67_42]
[DhtmlXQ_comment70_36]至此,红三兵被黑炮灭掉一个,黑棋完成了黑胜的第一阶段的目标![/DhtmlXQ_comment70_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment71_38]至此,红三兵被黑炮灭掉一个,完成黑胜的第一阶段的目标![/DhtmlXQ_comment71_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment73_32]和棋[/DhtmlXQ_comment73_32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment74_34]和棋[/DhtmlXQ_comment74_34]
[DhtmlXQ_comment75_42]已和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment75_42]
[DhtmlXQ_comment76_45]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment76_45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment77_92]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment77_92]
[DhtmlXQ_comment78_37]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment78_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment78_39]黑方长将。[/DhtmlXQ_comment78_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment78_60]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment78_60]
[DhtmlXQ_comment79_61]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment79_61]
[DhtmlXQ_comment80_41]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment80_41]
[DhtmlXQ_comment81_26][FEN=4k4/1P7/b2P5/9/9/4P4/9/B2K5/1p3p3/4c4 w - - 4 13]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment81_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment81_35]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment81_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment82_35]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment82_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment82_70]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment82_70]
[DhtmlXQ_comment83_31]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment83_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment83_51]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment83_51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment84_47]以下炮要防双兵杀，无法捉死相。和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment84_47]
[DhtmlXQ_comment86_41]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment86_41]
[DhtmlXQ_comment87_25]走帅六进一后再走可转到相同局面中。[/DhtmlXQ_comment87_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment87_27]![/DhtmlXQ_comment87_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment87_38]反而成和矣![/DhtmlXQ_comment87_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment88_35]黑不易胜![/DhtmlXQ_comment88_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment89_40]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment89_40]
[DhtmlXQ_comment90_27]兵八平七中有相同局面，和棋。||后面是云库自动拆解的着法，本人未仔细拆解。[/DhtmlXQ_comment90_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment90_78]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment90_78]
[DhtmlXQ_comment91_27][FEN=4k4/2P6/3P5/9/2b6/4P4/9/B2K5/p4p3/4c4 b - - 5 14]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment91_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment92_12]劣[/DhtmlXQ_comment92_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment92_13]这样即可避免棋规问题获胜，黑无着可应[/DhtmlXQ_comment92_13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment92_17]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment92_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment93_18]红方需变着。不变作负。[/DhtmlXQ_comment93_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment94_38]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment94_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment95_10]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment95_10]
[DhtmlXQ_comment95_14]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment95_14]
[DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]弈聪[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]
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