【转载】三兵联营千古和棋骗局？？ 红输！！----杀特级

sdndsx

发帖时间：2015-8-21 16:04:00
原帖第1局

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sdndsx

发帖时间：2015-8-22 19:42:00
原帖第2局

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聨吟客

無論大陸或亞洲規則都判黑勝的,我很納悶為何有些人或譜認為允許紅這樣呢?
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[DhtmlXQ_comment2_32]黑用規則取勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_32]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_21_2]717360656141654573434585433342603343604243334260[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_21_2][DhtmlXQ_comment28]黑用規則取勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment28][DhtmlXQ_comment16]這樣較容易掌握[/DhtmlXQ_comment16]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34785%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
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★星海★

棋书上给出这样的解释：
红炮只捉一次，长立不动，黑卒不逃，红相与黑象的炮架之争，按民间惯例属于允许着法，双方不变和。

聨吟客

呵呵呵, 那麼 民間慣例又獨立於大陸與亞洲規則之外, 三種規則三足鼎立囉?

  顧客要事先向攤主確認用何種規則才行啊

聨吟客

2樓黑走法有問題
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[DhtmlXQ_comment33]應紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment33]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_32_2]8788434888482524[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_32_2][DhtmlXQ_comment2_35]應紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_35]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_26_3]6482760678680608[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_26_3][DhtmlXQ_comment3_29]應紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_29][DhtmlXQ_comment24]|| \u003F 劣[/DhtmlXQ_comment24][DhtmlXQ_comment25]!![/DhtmlXQ_comment25]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_1]476762677868674741314648[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_1][DhtmlXQ_comment1_33]紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_33]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34785%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
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聨吟客

[DhtmlXQ]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment4_33]應紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_33]
[DhtmlXQ_move_4_32_2]8788434888482524[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_32_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_35]應紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_35]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_26_3]6482760678680608[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_26_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_29]應紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_29]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_4]478762634131634348385958[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_4][DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_1]476762677868674741314648[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_33]紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_33]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_35_5]466678792434555434335484[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_35_5][DhtmlXQ_comment28]應這樣[/DhtmlXQ_comment28][DhtmlXQ_comment42]民間慣例作和\u003F[/DhtmlXQ_comment42]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34785%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
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聨吟客

1 樓走法如果成立, 就是沒有規則糾紛的黑勝法,  推翻以前各譜了

sdndsx

聨吟客 发表于 2015-8-27 10:41
1 樓走法如果成立, 就是沒有規則糾紛的黑勝法,  推翻以前各譜了

谢谢您的分享！

最近转载的两则江湖局帖子，都是新贴出的。供老师们探讨一下正确与否。

另一帖的链接：
http://www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum ... mp;extra=#pid257556

一杯红酒

单兵连营也一样是黑胜局，“家”们出书不负责任，还要冠以八大名局，遗害甚大，现今江湖，几乎是骗子江湖，和这些都是直接相关的，红酒的江湖局改革是势在必行了，红酒也提了很多自己的想法、办法、方法，总之必须从根上解决江湖骗局的问题，江湖残局才有救，才有希望，才有市场！

聨吟客

7樓還有問題 ㄝ,修正如下,  但仍有規則問題 , 大陸規則還是黑勝
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment4_33]應紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_33]
[DhtmlXQ_move_4_32_2]8788434888482524[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_32_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_35]應紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_35]
[DhtmlXQ_move_7_26_3]6482760678680608[/DhtmlXQ_move_7_26_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_29]應紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_29]
[DhtmlXQ_move_7_28_4]478762634131634348385958[/DhtmlXQ_move_7_28_4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_7_28_1]476762677868674741314648[/DhtmlXQ_move_7_28_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_33]紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_33]
[DhtmlXQ_move_6_35_5]466678792434555434335484[/DhtmlXQ_move_6_35_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_42]民間慣例作和\u003F[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_42]
[DhtmlXQ_move_7_32_6]64826365535565675557676557556567555767655755[/DhtmlXQ_move_7_32_6][DhtmlXQ_comment7_32]黑可勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_32]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_25_7]71764047764647576263575325244131[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_25_7][DhtmlXQ_comment25]應這樣[/DhtmlXQ_comment25]
[DhtmlXQ_move_9_42_8]55353433323133323130323130403747[/DhtmlXQ_move_9_42_8][DhtmlXQ_comment9_45]||紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_45]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_40_9]786867373242374742524648[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_40_9][DhtmlXQ_comment46]亞洲規則與民間慣例作和[/DhtmlXQ_comment46]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34785%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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聨吟客

  呵呵,  雙兵聯營大陸與亞洲規則也都是黑勝, 要用亞洲規則加上民間慣例兩種判決才能和局

聨吟客

我以前修改很多局聯吟類局,有的很成功滿意

yjr123

1楼着法黑有大漏着

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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_15_1]707131326162323165473848476540806261313271814264654764826141324241318050313850583836786836466869[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_15_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_31_2]77474585471742411718787918198589[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_31_2][DhtmlXQ_comment31]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment31]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34785[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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聨吟客

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[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]6499659959999999418274251403999999994299309999999984997848473899[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]NoName[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_15_1]707131326162323165473848476540806261313271814264654764826141324241318050313850583836786836466869[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_15_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_3_31_2]77474585471742411718787918198589[/DhtmlXQ_move_3_31_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_31]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_31]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_4]8264[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_4][DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_3]6545614132424145[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment28]這樣[/DhtmlXQ_comment28][DhtmlXQ_comment4_28]或這樣[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_28]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34785%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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sdndsx

谢谢各位老师的关注和支持！
此局原帖的跟帖已有31贴。
原帖楼主强调的是如下局面（红先负）：
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999659959999999996271251403999999994299319999999980997899994899[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]NoName[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34785%26extra%3D[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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聨吟客

sdndsx 发表于 2015-12-4 08:36
谢谢各位老师的关注和支持！
此局原帖的跟帖已有31贴。
原帖楼主强调的是如下局面（红先负）：

研究看看

bh22wsc

十六楼局面红方可以接走炮二平一，而不是先走炮三进一。

sdndsx

原帖楼主的补充帖子：
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title]NoName[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]6499659959999999418274251403999999994299309999999984997848473899[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
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聨吟客

還是回到用規則取勝較簡明吧
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]6499659959999999418274251403999999994299309999999984997848473899[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]NoName[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_movelist]6460426082626042747048495949844449594441626030316061414065473848707131304765406061414264654764424729422029472042[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_15_1]707131326162323165473848476540806261313271814264654764826141324241318050313850583836786836466869[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_15_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_3_31_2]77474585471742411718787918198589[/DhtmlXQ_move_3_31_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_31]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_31]
[DhtmlXQ_move_5_28_4]8264[/DhtmlXQ_move_5_28_4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_5_28_3]6545614132424145[/DhtmlXQ_move_5_28_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_28]這樣[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_28]或這樣[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_28]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_17_5]476542646547648247654060707131320313606571776585[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_17_5]
[DhtmlXQ_move_7_22_6]4264654764826242[/DhtmlXQ_move_7_22_6]
[DhtmlXQ_move_7_23_9]626131327181426465476482614132424131805031385058[/DhtmlXQ_move_7_23_9][DhtmlXQ_move_9_29_8]47658060[/DhtmlXQ_move_9_29_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment28]應判黑勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment28][DhtmlXQ_move_0_18_7]31326162323147654080718142646547[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_18_7][DhtmlXQ_comment7_25]黑不容易勝\u003F[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_25][DhtmlXQ_comment18]這樣用規則取勝 簡明[/DhtmlXQ_comment18]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34785%26page%3D1%26extra%3D[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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bh22wsc

[DhtmlXQ]
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[DhtmlXQ_movelist]7161648247658264654764824765[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7]按三兵惯例不算长打，如果一味按照现行棋规则无意义，此局是上海江湖艺人阿毛于五十年中期创作，那时的创作的棋局，不能用今天的棋规。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_1_1]7178[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_1_1][DhtmlXQ_comment1_1]||这是自变劣着，导致黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_1]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34785%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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聨吟客

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[DhtmlXQ_comment3_31]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_31]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_5_28_3]6545614132424145[/DhtmlXQ_move_5_28_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_28]這樣[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_28]或這樣[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_28]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment7_28]應判黑勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_28]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment11_25]黑不容易勝\u003F[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_18]這樣用規則取勝 簡明[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_18]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_22_10]408071818060[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_22_10][DhtmlXQ_move_0_22_6]4264654764826242[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_22_6]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment22]這樣也是黑勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment22][DhtmlXQ_comment30]規則應判黑勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment30]
[DhtmlXQ_move_10_24_11]42646547[/DhtmlXQ_move_10_24_11][DhtmlXQ_comment10_24]可能也是規則取勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_24]
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bh22wsc

这些变化在杨明忠前辈的象棋民间排局棋谱上都记载，自一楼开始讨论的基本没有任何意义，只是用一个响亮的名字发一个劣变而已。

聨吟客

11樓棋規 又如何

聨吟客

如果走動炮架長捉卒為允許走法,那麼此局就是非常精采的江湖和局,否則也是黑勝,這局勢流傳遍台灣的江湖棋攤,但並非每位攤主都能研究透徹,呵呵呵, 何況也有規則問題,以前論壇有討論過
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[DhtmlXQ_comment0]以前台灣流行的局面[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
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聨吟客

所以我就修改我曾改了很多圖,下圖是保留上圖的變化精華,又能沒有規則問題的局面

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[DhtmlXQ_title]七子聯吟添兵卒 陳明仁修改[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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bh22wsc

其实棋规和结论并不重要，就算单兵连营黑胜也不影响其流行程度和其精彩性，好多棋局的黑胜结论多是近些年最终定论的，在这以前不都是流行于江湖棋摊吗？在所有连营系列中无可非议的仍是单兵、双兵、三兵最为流行深奥，其它的棋局逊色太多太多。

聨吟客

王兄有研究過25樓嗎? 如果不考慮規則與結論,25樓 複雜度細微度精采度以及氣勢 都是上上之局,超越單兵雙兵三兵 局

聨吟客

聨吟客 发表于 2015-12-4 18:06
王兄有研究過25樓嗎? 如果不考慮規則與結論,25樓 複雜度細微度精采度以及氣勢 都是上上之局,超越單兵雙兵三 ...

再加一個趣味度

bh22wsc

陈兄的两局我没有研究，可能变化会很复杂，结论或棋规并不是重要的，单从棋局图式上就很难超越单兵和三兵。联吟局本就抵不上连营，连营上世纪四十年初就流行江湖的，估计成局在三十年代左右，就是因为联吟基础上创作的，从而联吟淡出江湖。作为江湖排局一定要江湖，图式简洁美观很重要。因此并非所有棋局都可作为江湖排局的。